Edmund Spenser

A View of the Present State of Ireland

(A Veue of The Present State of Ireland)

Discoursed by way of a Dialogue betwene Eudoxus and Irenius.

Eudoxus

But if that country of Ireland whence you lately came, be so goodly and commodious a soyle as you report, I wounder that no course is taken for the tourning therof to good uses, and reducing that salvage nation to better goverment and civillity.

Irenius

Mary, so ther have bin divers good plotts devised, and wise counsells cast alredy about reformation of that realme, but they say it is the fatall destiny of that land, that no purposes, whatsoever are meant for her good, wil prosper and take good effect: which, whether it proceede from the very genius of the soyle, or influence of the starrs, or that Almighty god hath not yet appoynted the time of her reformacion, or that he reserveth her in this unquiet state still, for some secret scourge, which shall by her come unto England, it is hard to be knowne, but yet much to be feared.

Eudoxus

Surely I suppose this but a vaine conceipt of simple men, which judge things by ther effects, and not by ther causes; for I would rather thinck the cause of this evel, which hangeth upon that country, to proceede rather upon the unsoundnesse of the counsell, and plotts, which you say have bin oftentimes layd for her reformacon, or of fayntnesse in following and effecting the same, then of any such fatall course or appoyntment of god, as you misdeme; but it is the manner of men, that when they are fallen into any absurdity, or theyre actions succeede not as they would, they are ready alwayes to impute the blame therof unto the heavens, so to excuse ther own folly and imperfections: so have I also heard it often wished, (even of some whos great wisedome in [my] opinion should seme to judg more soundly of so weighty a consideracon) that all that land weare a sea-poole; which kind of speach, is the manner rather of desperate men far driven, to wish the utter ruine of that which they cannot redresse, then of grave counsellors, which ought to thinck nothing so hard, but that through wisdome it may be maistered and subdued; since the poet sayth, that the wiseman shall rule even over the starrs, much more over the earth: for were it not the part of a desperate physition to wish his diseased patient dead, rather then to imploy the best indevours of his skill for his recovery: but since we are so far entred, let us I pray you, devise of those evills, by which that country is held in this wretched case, that it cannot, as you say, be recured. And if it be not painfull to you, to tell us what things during your late continuance ther, you observed, to be most offensive, and impeachfull unto the good rule and government therof.

Irenius

Surely, Eudox, the evills which you desire to be recounted are very many, and almost countable with those which were hidden in the basket of Pandora: but since you so please, I will out of that infinit number, reckone but some that are most capitall, and commonly occurrent both in the life and condicions of private men, and also in the manage of publique affaires and pollicie. The which you shall understand to be of divers natures, as I observed them: for some of them are of very great antiquity and long continuance; others more late and of lesse endurance; others dayly growing and increasing continually, as the evill occasions are every day offred.

Eudoxus

Tell them, I pray you, in the same order that you have now rehearsed them; for ther can be no better methode then this which the very matter itself offreth. And when you have reckoned all the evills, let us heare your opinion for redressing of them. After which ther will perhaps of it self appere some reasonable way to settle a sound and perfect rule of government by shunning the former evills, and following the offred good. The which methode we may learne of the wise Physitions, which first require that the malady be knowne throughly and discovered: afterwards do teach how to cure and redresse it: and lastly do prescribe a diet with streight rules and orders to be dayly observed, for fear of relaps into the former disease, or falling into some other more dangerous then it.

Irenius

I will then according to your advisement, begin to declare the evills which seme to be most hurtfull to the comon-weale of that land: and first, those which I sayd were most ancient and long growne: and they are also of 3 kinds; the first in the lawes, the second in customes, the last in religion.

Eudoxus

:Why, Irenius, can there be anie evill in the lawes? can things which are ordayned for the safetie and good of all, turne to the evill and hurt of them? This well I wote both in that state and in all other, that were they not contayned in doutie with feare of lawe which restrayneth offences, and inflicteth sharpe punishment to misdoers, no man should enjoy anie thing, everie mans hand would be against another. Therfore in finding fault with the lawes I doubt me you shall muche over-shote your selfe, and make me the more dislike your other dislikes of that government.

Irenius

The lawes Eudoxus, I doe not blame for them selves, knowing that all lawes are ordayned for the good of the common weal and for repressing of licensiousnesse and vice: but it falleth out in lawes, no otherwise then it doth in Phisick, which was at first devized, and is yet dayly ment and ministred for the health of the patient: but neverthelesse we often se that either through ignorance of the disease, or unseasonablenesse of the time, or other accidents comming betwene, in stead of good it worketh hurt, and out of one evill, throweth the patient into many miseries: so the lawes were at first intended for the reformacon of abuses, and peaceable continuance of the subjects: but are since either disannulled or quite prevaricated through chang and alteration of times, yet are they still good in them selves: but to that common wealth which is ruled by them they worke not that good which they should, and sometimes also perhaps that evil which they would not.

Eudoxus

Whether do you meane this by the common lawes of the realme or by the statute lawes and acts of parliament?

Irenius

Surely by them both: for even the common lawes, being that which William of Normandy brought in with his conquest and layd upon the neck of England, though it perhaps fitted well with the state of England then being, and was readily obeyed through the power of the commander which had before subdued the poeple to him, and made easy way to the setting of his will; yet with the state of Ireland peradventure it doth not so well agre, being a poeple altogether stubborn and vntamed and, if it were once tamed, yet now lately having quite shaken of ther yoke and broken the bands of ther obedience. For England, before the entrance of the Conqueror, was an unpeaceable kingdome, and but lately entred to the mild and godly goverment of King Edward surnamed the confessor; besides now lately growne unto a lothing and detestation of the unjust and tirannous rule of Harold, an usurper, which made them the more willing to accept of any reasonable condicons and order of the new Victor, thincking surely it could be no worse than the latter, and hoping well it would be as good as the former: yet what the proofe of the first bringing in and establishing of the lawes was, was to many full bitterly made knowne. But with Ireland it is far otherwise: for it is a nation ever acquainted with warrs, though but amongest them selves, and in ther owne kind of military disciplin, trayned up from ther youths: which they have never yet bin tought to lay aside, nor made to learne obedience unto the law, scarsely to know the name of law, but in stead therof have alwayes preserved and kept ther owne law, which is the Brehon law.

Eudoxus

What is that which you call the Brehon law? it is a word unto us altogether unknowne.

Irenius

It is a certaine rule of right, unwritten, but delivered by tradition from one to an other, in which oftentimes there appereth great shew of equity, in determining the right betwene part and party, but in many things repugning quite from gods law and mans, as for example, in the case of murther. The Brehon that is ther judg, will compound betwene the murtherer, and the frends of the party murthered, which prosecute the action, that the malefactor shall give unto them, or to the child, or wife of him that is slaine, a recompence, which they call an Iriach; by which vile law of thers, many murders are amongest them made up and smothered. And this judg being, as he is called, the Lords Brehon, adjudgeth for the most part a better share unto his Lord, that is the Lord of the soyle, or the head of that septe, and also unto him self, for his judgment, a greater portion than unto the plaintifes or parties grieved.

Eudoxus

This is a most wicked law indede: but I trust it is not now used in Ireland, since the kings of England have had the absolute dominion therof, and established ther owne lawes there.

Irenius

Yes truly, for ther are many wide countries in Ireland, in which the lawes of England were never established, nor any acknowledgement of subjection made: and also even in those which are subdued and seme to acknowledg subjection, yet the same Brehon law is privily practised amongest them selves, by reason that dwelling as they do, whole nations and septs of the Irish together, without any Englishman amongest them, they may do what they list, and compound or altogether conceale amongest them selves ther owne crimes, of which no notice can be had by them which would and might amend the same, by the rule of the lawes of England.

Eudoxus

What is this which you say? and is ther any part of that realme, or any nacon therin, which have not yet been subdued to the crowne of England? Did not the whole realme universally accept and acknowledg our late Prince of famous memory, Henry the eighth, ther ownely King and liege Lord?.

Irenius

Yes, verily: in a parliament held in the time of Sir Anthony Saint-Leger, then Lord Deputy, all the Irish Lords and principall men came in, and being by faire means wrought thereunto, acknowledged King Henry for their Soveraigne Lord, reserving yet, as some say, unto them selves, all ther owne former privileges and signories inviolate.

Eudoxus

Then by that acceptance of his soveraignety they also accepted of his lawes: why then should any other laws be now used amongest them?

Irenius

Trew it is that therby they bound them selves to his lawes and obedience, and in case it had been followed against them, as it should have bin, and a goverment therupon presently settled amongest them agreeable therunto, they should have bin reduced to perpetuall civillity and contayned in continuall duty: but what boots it to breake a colt, and to let him streight run lose at randome? so were this people at first well handled, and wisely brought to acknowledg allegiance to the King of England: but being straight left unto them selves, and ther owne inordinate life and manners, they eftsones forgot what before they were taught, and so sone as they were out of sight by them selves, shooke of their bridles, and began to colt anew, more licensiously than before.

Eudoxus

It is great pitty, that so good an opportunity was omitted, and so happy an occasion foreslacked, that might have bred the eternall good of that land: but do they not still acknowledg that submission?

Irenius

No, they do not; for now the heirs and posterity of them which yeilded, the same are, as they say, either ignorant therof, or do willingly deny, or steadfastly disavow it.

Eudoxus

How can they so do justly? doth not the act of the parent, in any lawfull grant or conveyance, bind his heires forever therunto? Sith then the ancestors of thes that now live yeilded them selves their subjects and liege men, shall it not ty ther children to the same subjection?

Irenius

They say no: for ther ancestours had had no estate in any ther lands, Seigniories, or hereditaments, longer than during ther owne lives, as they allege: for all the Irish do hould ther lands by Tanistrie, which is to say, no more but a personall estate for his lifetime, that is Tanist. By reason that he is admitted therunto by election of the country.

Eudoxus

What is this you call Tanist and Tanistrie? they be names and tearmes never heard of or knowne to us.

Irenius

It is a custome amongest all the Irish, that presently after the death of any their chiefe Lords or Captaines, they do presently assemble them selves to a place, generally appoynted and knowne unto them, to chose an other in his stead: where they do nominate and elect, for the most part, not the eldest sonne, nor any of the children of ther Lord deceased, but the next to him of blood, that is, the eldest and worthiest, as commonly the next brother unto him, if he have any, or the next couzine germane, or so forth, as any is elder in that kindred or sept: and then next to him do those chose the next of the blood to be Tanist, who shall next succeede him in the said Captenry, if he live therunto.

Eudoxus

Do they use any ceremony in this election? for all barberous nacons are commonly great observers of cerimonies and superstitious rights.

Irenius

They use to place him that shall be their Captaine, upon a stone alwayes reserved for that purpose, and placed commonly upon a hill: in many of the which I have seen the fote of a man formed and graven, which they say was the measure of ther first Captaines foot, wheron he standing receiveth an oath to preserve all the former auncient customes of the country inviolable, and to deliver up the succession peaceably to his Tanist, and then has a wand delivered unto him by some, whose proper office that is: after which, discending from the stone, he turns him selfe round, thrice forwarde and thrice backward.

Eudoxus

But how is the Tanist chosen?

Irenius

They say he setteth but one fote upon the stone, and receiveth the like oath the Captaine did.

Eudoxus

Have you ever heard what was the occasion and first beginning of this custome? for it is good to know the same, and may perhaps discover some secret meaning and intent therein, very materiall to the state of that government.

Irenius

I have heard that the beginning and cause of this ordinance amongest the Irish, was specially for the defence and maintenance of ther land in ther posterity, and for excluding all innovacon or alienation therof unto strangers and especially to the English: For when ther Captaine dieth, if the Seigniory should discend unto his child, and he perhaps an infant, an other might perhaps step in betwene and thrust him out by strong hand, being then vnable to defend his right, or to withstand the force of a forayner: and therfore they do appoynt the eldest of the kin to have the seigniory, for that he commonly is a man of stronger yeares, and better experience to maintain the inheritance, and to defend the country, either against the next bordering Lords, which use commonly to incroch one upon another as each one is stronger, or against the English, which they thinck ly still in wayte to wipe them out of ther lands and territories. And to this end the Tanist is always ready knowne, if it should happen the Captaine suddenly to dy or be slayne in batayle, or to be out of the country, to defend and kepe it from all such doubts and dangers. [F]or which cause the Tanist hath also a share of the country allotted unto him, and certaine cuttings and spendings upon all the inhabitants under the Lord.

Eudoxus

When I heare this word Tanist it bringeth to my remembrance what I have read of Tania, that it should signify a province or Seignory [as] Aquitania, Lusitania, and Britania, the which some do thinck to be derived of Dania, that is, from the Danes: but, I thinck, amisse, for sure it semeth that it came anciently from those barberous nacons that overrane the world, which possessed those dominions, whereof they are now so called. And so it may well be that from thence the first originall of this word Tanist and Tanistry came, and the custome therof has since, as many others, else bin continued: but to that generall subjection of the land, wherof we formerly spake, me semes that this custome or tenure can be no bar nor impeachment, seing that in open parlyament by ther said acknowledgement they waived the benefit therof, and submitted them selves to the ordinance of ther new soveraigne.

Irenius

Yea but they say, as I earst tould you, that they reserved ther titles, tenures, and seigniories whole and sound to them selves, and for proofe alleged that they have ever since remayned to them untouched, so as now to alter them they say shoul'd be a great wrong.

Eudoxus

What remedy is ther then, or means to avoyde this inconvenience, for, without first cutting out this dangerous custom, it semeth hard to plant any sound ordinance, or reduce them to a civill government, since all ther evill customes are permitted unto them.

Irenius

Surely nothing hard; for by this act of parlament wherof we speake, nothing was given to King Henry, which he had not before from his auncestors, but onelie the bare name of a King: [f]or all other absolute power of principallity he had in him selfe before derived from many former Kings, his famous progenitours and worthy conquerors of that land, the which since they first conquered and by force subdued vnto them, what neede he afterward to enter into any such idle tearmes with them to be called ther King, when as it is in the power of the Conqueror to take upon him self what title he will over his dominions conquered: for all is the conqueror's, as Tully to Brutus saith: “and therfore me semes in stead of so great and meritorious a service”, as they boast they performed to the King, in bringing all the Irish to acknowledge him for ther liege, they did great hurt to his title, and have left a perpetuall gall in the mind of that people, who before being absolutely bound to his obedience, are now tyed but with tearmes whereas both ther lives, ther lands, and their liberties were in his fre power to appoynt, what tenures, what lawes, what condicions he would over them, which were all his: against which ther could be no rightful [re]sistance, or if there were, he might, when he would, establish them with a stronger hand.

Eudoxus

Yea, but perhaps it semed better vnto that noble King to bring them by ther owne accord to his obedience, and to plant a peaceable goverment amongest them, then by such violent means to pluck them under. Neither yet hath he therby lost any thing that he formerly had: for having al before absolutely in his owne power, it remayneth so still, he having neither forgiven nor foregon anything therby unto them, but having received something from them, that is a more voluntary and loyall subjection. So as her Majestie may yet, when it shall please her, alter any of thos former ordinances or appoynt other lawes, that may be more both for her own behoofe, and for the good of that poeple.

Irenius

Not so, for it is not so easy, now that things are growne into an habit and have ther certaine course, to change the channell, and turn ther streames an other way; for they may have now a collourable pretence to withstand such innovasion, having accepted of other lawes and rules alredy.

Eudoxus

But you say they do not accept of them, but delight rather to leane to the ould customes and Brehon lawes, though they be much more vnjust, and also more inconvenient for the common poeple, as by your late relacion of them I gathered. As for the lawes of England, they are surely most just and most agreeable both with the goverment and with the nature of the poeple: how falls it out then, that you seme to dislike of them, as not so meete for that realm of Ireland, and not onely the common law, but also the statutes and acts of parlament, which were specially provided and intended for the onely benefit therof?

Irenius

I was about to have tould you my reason therin, but that you your self drew me away with other questions, for I was shewing you by what means, and in what sort, the positive lawes were first brought in and established by the Norman Conqueror: which were not by him devised, nor applyed to the state of the realme then being, nor as it might best be, (as should by lawgivers be principally regarded,) but were indede the very lawes of his owne country of Normandy: the condicon wherof, how far it differeth from this of England, is apparent to everie least judgment. But to transfer the same lawes for the governing of the realme of Ireland, was much more inconvenient and unmete: for he found a better advantage of the time, then was in the planting of them in Ireland, and followed the execution of them with more severity, and was also present in person to overloke the magistrates, and to over awe the subjects with the terror of his sword, and countenance of his Majestie. But not so in Ireland: for they were otherwise effected, and yet not so remayned, so as the same lawes, me semes, can ill fit with their disposicion, or work that reformacon that is wished: for lawes ought to be fashioned unto the manners and condicons of the people to whom they are ment, and not to be imposed upon them according to the simple rule of right: for then, as I sayd, in stead of good they may work ill, and pervert justice to extreame injustice: [f]or he that would transfer the lawes of the Lacedemonians to the poeple of Athens should find a great absurdity and inconvenience: for those lawes of Lacedemon were devised by Licurgus, as most proper and best agreeing with that people, whom he knew to be inclined altogether to warrs, and therfore wholy trayned them up even from ther cradles in armes and military exercises, clean contrary to the institution of Solon, who, in his lawes to the Athenians labored by all means to temper ther warlike courages with swete delights of learning and sciences, so that as much as the one excelled in arms, the other exceded in knowledg: the like regard and moderation ought to be had in tempering and managing of this stubburn nation of the Irish, to bring them from their delight of licensious barbarisme unto the love of goodnesse and civillity.

Eudoxus

I cannot se how that may better be then by the discipline of the lawes of England: for the English were, at first, as stout and war like a poeple as ever were the Irish, and yet ye se are now brought to that civillity, that no nacon in the world excelleth them in all godly conversacon, and all the studies of knowledg and humanity.

Irenius

What they now be, both you and I se very well; but by how many thorny and hard wayes they are come therunto, by how many civill broyls, by how many tumultuous rebellions, that even hazard[ed] often times the whole safety of the kingdome, may easily be considered: all which they neverthelesse fairely overcame, by reason of the continewal presence of the King, whos onely person is oftentimes in stead of an army, to contayne the unruly poeple from a thousand evill occasions, which that wretched kingdome, is for want therof daily carried into. The which when they so make head, no lawes, no penalties can restraine, but that they do in the violence of that fury, tread doune and trample under foote all both divine and humane things, and the lawes themselves they do specially rage at, and rend in peces, as most repugnant to ther liberty and naturall fredome, which in ther madnesse they effect.

Eudoxus

It is then a very unseasonable time to plead law, when swords are in the hands of the vulgare, or to thinck to retaine them with feare of punishments when they loke after liberty and shake of all goverment.

Irenius

Then so it is with Ireland continually, for the sword was never yet out of ther hand, but when they are weary with warrs, and brought doune to extreame wretchednesse; then they creepe a litle perhaps, and sewe for grace, till they have gotten new breath and recovered strength againe: so it is in vaine to speake of planting of lawes and plotting of pollicies till they be altogether subdued.

Eudoxus

Were they not so at the first conquering of them by Strangbowe, in the time of King Henry the second? Was there not a thorowe way then made by the sword, for the imposing of the lawes upon them? and were they not then executed with such mighty hand as you sayd was used by the Norman Conqueror? What odds is there then in this case? why should not the same lawes take as good effect in that poeple, as they did here, being in like sort prepared by the sword, and brought under by extremity? and why should it not continew in as good force and vigor for the contayning of the poeple?.

Irenius

The case yet is not like; but ther apperes great odds betwene them; for by the conquest of Henry the second, trew it is that the Irish were utterly vanquished and subdued, so as no enemy was able to hold up his head against his powre: in which there weaknesse he brought in his lawes, and settled them as now they ther remaine, like as William the Conqueror did: so as in thus much they agre, but in the rest, that is, the chiefest, they varie: ffor to whom did King Henry the second impose thos lawes, not to the Irish, for the most part of them fled from his power into deserts and mountaynees, leaving the wide country to the conqueror, who in ther stead eftsones placed Englishmen, who possessed all the land and did quite shut out the Irish, or the most part of them: and to those new inhabitants and Colonies he gave his lawes, to wete, the same lawes under which they were born and bred, the which it was not difficulte to place amongst them, being formerly well entred therunto; unto whom afterward ther repaired divers of the pore distressed poeple of the Irish for succor and reliefe: of whom, such as they thought fit for labor, and industriouslie disposed, as the most part of theire baser sort are, they received unto them as theire vassalls, but scarcelie vouchsafed to impart unto them the benefite of those lawes, under which them selves lived, but everie one made his will a commandment and a lawe unto his owne vassall. Thus was not the lawe of England ever properlie applied unto the Irish nacon, as by a purposte plott of goverment, but as they could insynuate and steale them selves under the same by theire humble carriage and submission.

Eudoxus

How comes it then to passe, that havinge ben once so lowe brought, and thoroughlie subjected they afterwards lifted them selves so stronglie agayne, and sithence doe stand stifflie against all rule and goverment?

Irenius

They saie that they contynued in that lowlynesse untill the time that the division betwene the houses of Lancaster and York arose for the Crowne of England: At which tyme all the greate English lords and gentlemen which had great possessions in Ireland, repaired over hither into England, to succor their ffriends here and to strengthen theire partie for to obtene the Crowne: others to defend there landes and possessions against suche as hovered after the same uppon hope of the alteracon of the kingdome, and successe of that side which they had favored and effected. Then the Irishe whom they before had banished into the mountaynes, where they lived only uppon white meates, as it is recorded: seeinge now there so dispeopled land weakened, came downe into all the playnes adjoyninge, and thence expellinge those fewe Englishe that remayned, repossesste them agayne; since whych tyme they have remayned in them, and growinge greater, have brought under them many of the Englishe which were before theire lords. This is one of the occasions by which all those countries which, lyinge nere unto any mountaynes or Irishe deserts, which had bin planted with Englishe, were shortlie displanted and lost. As namelie in Mounster, all the landes adjoyning unto Slowlougher, Arlo, and the bogg of Allon. In Connaght, all the Countries borderinge uppon the Culvers'; Montroo, and O'Rourkes' countrie. In Leinster all the landes neighboring unto the mountaynes of Glanmulls, unto Shellelagh, unto the Briskbagh, and Poulmont. In Ulster, all the countries near unto Tirconnell, Tyronne, and Hertellagh, and the Scottes.

Eudoxus

Surelie this was a great violence: but yett by your speche it semeth that onlie the Countrie and vallies near adjoyninge unto those mountaynes and desertes, were thus recovered by the Irishe: but how comes it now that wee see almost all that Realme repossessed of them? Was there any more such evil occasons growinge by the troubles of England? Or did the Irishe, out of thes places so by them gotten, breake further and stretche them selves out thorough the whole land? But nowe for ought that I can understand, there is no part but the bare English pale, in which the Irishe have not the greatest footinge.

Irenius

Bothe out of theis smale begynnynges by them gotten near to the mountaynes, did they spreade them selves into the Inland Countrie; and also, to theire further advantage, there did other like unhappie accidentes happen out of England, which gave harte and good opportunitye to them to regain theire old possessions. Ffor in the reigne of Kinge Edward the fourth, things remained yet in the same state that they were after the late breakinge out of the Irishe, which I spake of: And that noble Prince began to cast an eye unto Ireland, and to mynde the reformacon of thinges there rune amisse: for he sent over his brother the worthie Duke of Clarence, who having married the heire of Larie, and by her havinge all the Erledom of Ulster, and moche in Meathe and in Mounster, verie carefullie went about in the redressinge of those late evills: and though he could not beate out the Irishe agayne, by reason of his shorte contynuance, yet he did shutt them upp within those narrowe corners and glennes under the mountayne foot in which they lurked, and soe kept them from breaking any further, by buildinge strang holdes uppon everie border, and fortifyinge all passages: Amongest the which he built the castle of Clare in Thurmond: of which Countrie he had the inheritance, and of Mortymer's landes adjoining, which is nowe by the Irishe called Killalowe. But the tymes of that good Kinge growinge troublesome, did lett the thorough reformacon of all things. And thereunto soone after was added another fatall mischiefe, which wrought a greater calamitie then all the former. For the said Duke of Clarence, then Lord Lieftenant of Ireland, was by practize of evill persons about the Kinge his brother, called thence awaye, and soone after by synister meanes was cleane made awaye. Presentlie after whose deathe all the North revoltinge, did sett up Oneale for theire Capten, beinge before that of smale power and regard: and there arose in that parte of Thomond, one of the O-Bryens, called Murrogh en ranagh, that is, Morrys of the ffarme, or waste wylde places: who, gatheringe unto him all the relickes of the discontented Irishe, eftsones surprised the said Castle of Clare, burnt and spoyled all the English there dwelling, and in short space possessed all the country beyond the river of Shenan and near adjoyning. Whence shortlie breakinge forth like a sudden tempest, he overran all Mounster and Connaught, breakinge downe all the holdes and fortresses of the Englishe, defacinge and utterlie subvertinge all corporate Townes that were not stronglie walled: for those he had no meanes nor engynes to overthrowe; neither indede would he stay at all about them, but speedilie ran forwarde, counting his suddennes his most vantage, that he might overtake the Englishe before they could fortefie or gather them selves together. So in short time he cleane wyped out many greate townes, as first in Chegin, then Killalowe, before called Clarryfort; afterward Tharles, Mourne, Buttevant, and many others, viz. {⬌} whose names I can not remember, and of some of which there is now no memorie nor signe remayning. Upon report whereof there flocked unto him all the scume of the Irishe out of all places, that ere longe he had a mightie army, and thence marched forth into Lynster, where he wrought greate outrages, wastinge and spoylinge all the Countrie where he went: For it was his pollicie to leave no holde behinde him, but to make all playne and waste. In the which he sone after created himselfe Kinge, and was called Kinge of all Ireland; which before him I doe not read that any did so generallie, but onelie Edwarde lee Bruce.

Eudoxus

What, was there ever any generall Kinge of all Ireland? I never heard it before, but that it was alwaies, whilest it was under the Yrishe, divided into fower, and sometimes into five kingdomes or dominions. But this Edward lee Bruce, what was he, that he could make him selfe Kinge of all Ireland?

Irenius

I would tell you, that in case you would not challendge me for forgetting the matter which I had in hand, that is, the inconvenience and unfitnes which I supposed to be in the lawes of the land.

Eudoxus

No surely I have no cause, for neither is this impertynent thereunto; for sithence you did sett your corse, as I remember, in your first part, to treat of the evills which hindereth the peace and good orderinge of that land, amongest which that of the inconvenience of the lawes was the first which you had in hand, this discourse of the overrunninge and wastinge of the realme is very materiall there unto, for that it was the begynnyng of other evills, which sithence have afflicted that land, and opened a way unto the Irish to recover theire possession, and to beate out the Englishe which had formerlie wonne the same. And besides, it will give greate light both unto the seconde and third parte, which is the redressinge of those evills, and plantinge of some good forme or pollicie therin, by renewinge the remembrance of those occasions and accidentes, by which those ruynes hapned, and layinge before us the ensamples of those tymes, to be compared with ours and to be rewarded by those which shall have to doe in the like. Therefore I praye yow, tell them unto us, and as for the point where you lefte, I will not forgett afterwardes to call you backe agayne thereunto.

Irenius

This Edward le Bruce, was the brother of King Roberte lee Bruce, who was Kinge of Scotland att such tyme as King Edwarde the second reigned here in England, and bare a most malicious and spitefull mynde against King Edwarde, doinge him all the scathe he could, and annoyinge his territories of England, whilest he was troubled with civill warres of his Barons att home. He also, to worke him the more mischiefe, sent over his said brother Edwarde, with a power of Scottes and Red-shankes into Ireland, where, by meanes of the Lacies and of Irishe with whom they combyned, they got footinge, and gatheringe unto him all the scatterlyn[g]s and outlawes out of all the woodes and mountaynes, in which they longe had lurked, marched forth into the English pale, which then was chieflie in the North, from the point of Dunluce, and beyond unto Dublyn: havinge in the midst of her Knockfergus, Belfast, Armagh; Carlingforde, which are nowe the most out-boundes and abandoned places in the Englishe pale, and some no parte thereof at all: ffor it stretcheth nowe no further than Dundalke towardes the North. There the said Edward lee Bruce spoyled and burnt all the old English pale, puttinge to the sworde all the Englishe inhabitantes, and sacked and raced all Cytties and corporate Townes, no lesse then Murro en Ranagh, of whom I earst tolde you: ffor hee wasted Belfast, Greene castell, Kiells, Beltalbott, Castletowne, Newtowne, and many other verie good townes and stronge holdes he rooted out the noble ffamilies of the Audleys, the Talbottes, the Tutchites, the Chamberlaynes, the Mandevilles,and the Salvages, though of the Lord Salvage there remayne yet an heire, that is now a verie poore gentleman dwellinge at the Ardes. And cominge lastlie to Dundalke, he there made him selfe Kinge and rained by the space of one whole yere, by the name of Edwarde Kinge of Ireland, until that King Edwarde of England, having sett some quiett in his affaires at home, sent over the Lord John Birmingham to be Generall of the warres against him, who encountringe him near to Dundalke, overthrew his armye and slewe him selfe, and presentlie followed the victory so hotlie upon his Scottes, that he suffred them not to staye, or gather them selves togeather agayne, untill they came to the sea coast. Notwythstandinge, all the waie as they fledd, for verie rancor and despite, they utterlie wasted and consumed whatsoever they had before left unspoiled; so that of all townes and castells, fortes, and bridges and habitacons, he left not any stick standing, nor any people remayning: for those fewe, which yett survived, fled from his furye further into the English pale that now is. Thus was all that godlie Countrie utterlie wasted and left desolate. And as [it] yet remayneth to this daie, which before had ben the chiefe ornament and beautie of Ireland. ffor that parte of the north sometyme was as populous and plentifull as any parte in England, and yelded unto the kinges of England, as yett appeareth by good recordes, thirty thousand markes of olde money by the peece, beside many thowsand of able men to serve them in their warres. Suer it is yett a most bewtifull and sweete Country as any is under heaven, seamed thoroughout with many godlie rivers, replenished with all sortes of fishe most aboundantlie; sprinkled with verie many sweete Ilandes and goodlie lakes, like litle inland seas, that will carrie even shippes uppon theire waters; adorned with goodlie woodes, fitt for buildinge of houses and shipes, so commodiouslie, as that if some princes in the world had them, they would soone hope to be lordes of all the seas, and er longe of all the worlde; also full of verie good portes and havens openinge upon England [and] Scotland, as invitinge us to come unto them, to see what excellent commodities that Countrie can afforde, besides the soyle it selfe most fertile, fitt to yelde all kynde of fruit that shalbe committed there unto. And lastlie the heavens most milde and temperate, though somewhat more moyste then the partes towardes the West.

Eudoxus

Truly Irenius, what with the prayses of your countrie, and what with the lamentable Dysolucon therof made by those ragtailes in Scotland, you have fylled me with a greate compassion of theire calamities, that I doe moch pittie that sweet land, to be subject to so many evills, as everie daie I see more and more throwen upon her, and doe halfe begynne to thinke, that it is, as you said at the begynninge, her fatall misfortune, above all countries that I knowe, to be thus miserablie tossed and turmoiled with theis variable stormes of afflictions: but synce wee are thus far entred into the consideracon of her mishappes, tell me, have there ben any more such tempestes, as you terme them, wherein she has thus wretchedlie ben wracked?

Irenius

Verie many more, god wot, have there ben, in which her principall partes have ben torn a sunder, but none that I can remember, so universall as these. And yet the rebellion of Thomas ffitzGarrett did well nighe stretche it self into all partes of Ireland. But that, which was in the tyme of the Lord Gray, was surelie no lesse generall then all theis; for there was no part free from the contagion, but all conspired in one to cast off theire subjeccon to the Crowne of England. Nevertheles, thorough the most wise and valiant handlinge of that right noble Lord, yt got not that head which the former evills found; for in them the Realme was left, like a shipp in a storme amiddest all the raginge surges, unruled and undirected of any: ffor they to whom she was committed either fainted in theire labor, or forsooke theire charge. But he, like a most wise pilott, kept her corse carefullie, and helde her most stronglie against those roaringe billowes, that he brought her safelie out of all: so as longe after, even by the space of xij or xiij yeres, she rode at peace, thorough his onlie paynes and excellent endurance, how ever envye list to blatter against him. But of this wee shall have more occacon to speake at an other tyme: now (if it please you) lett us return agayne unto our first corse.

Eudoxus

Trulie I am verie glad to heare your judgement of the governement of that honourable man so soundlie; for I have heard it oftentymes maligned, and his doinges depraved of some, who, I perceyve, did rather of malicious mind, or private greevance, seeke to detract from the honor of his deedes and counsells, then of any just cause: but he was nevertheles, in the judgement of all good and wise men, defended and maynteyned. And nowe that he is dead, his immortall fame survives, and flourisheth in the mouthes of all the people, that even those which did backbite him, are choked with theire owne venom, and breake theire galls to heare his so honorable report: But lett him rest in peace, and turne wee to oure more troublous matters of Discourse, of which I am right sorie that you make so short an end, and covet to passe over to your former purpose; for there be many partes of Ireland, which I have hearde have ben no lesse vexed with the like stormes, then theis of which you have treated. As the Countie of the Byrnes and Tooles near Dublyn, with the insolent outrages and spoyles of Ffeagh mac Hugh, the countries of Carlo, Wexforde, and Waterforde, of the Cavenaghes: The countries of Leix, Kilkennye, and Kildare, of the Moores, the countries of Offalie, Meath and Langford, of the Conhours. The countries of Westmeath, Cavan, and Louth, of the O Relyes, the Kellies, and many others. So as the discoursing of them, besides the pleasure which should redound out of your historie, be also verie proffitable for matter of pollicie.

Irenius

All these which you have named, and many more besides, often tymes have I right well knowne, to kyndle greately fyres of tumultuous troubles in the counties bordering uppon them. All which to rehearse should rather be to Chronicle tymes, then to searche into the reformacon of abuses in that Realme: and yet verie needfull it wilbe to consider them, and the evills which they have stirred upp, that some redresse thereof, and prevencon of the evills to come, may thereby rather be devysed. But I suppose wee shall have a fitter opportunity for the same, when wee shall speak of the particler abuses and enormities of the government, which wilbe next after these general defectes and inconveniences, which I said were in the lawes, customes, and religion.

Eudoxus

Goe to them, in gods name, and followe the course which yee have purposed to your selfe, for yt fitteth best I must confesse with the purpose of our discorse. Declare your opynion, as you begon, about the lawes of the Realme, what incommoditie you have conceived to be in them, chiefly in the common lawe, which I would have thought most free from all such dislike.

Irenius

The comon law is, as I before said, of it selfe most rightfull and verie convenient, I suppose, for the kingdom for which it was first devized; for this, I thinke, as yt seemes reasonable, that out of the manners of the people, and abuses of the countrie, for which they were invented, they tooke theire first begynninge, for else they should be most unjust: for no lawes of man, accordinge to the straight rule of right, are just, but as in regard of the evills which they prevent, and the safetie of the common weale which they provide for. As for example, in the true ballancinge of Justice, it is a flatt wrong to punishe the thought or purpose of any, before it be enacted: for true justice punisheth nothing but the evill acte or wycked worde, yet by the lawes of all kingdomes it is a capitall cryme, to devise or purpose the death of the King: the reason is, for that when such a purpose is effected, it should be too late to devise of the punishment therof, and should turne that common-weale to more hurt by suche losse of theire Prince, then suche punishment of the malefactors. And therefore the lawe in that case punishes his thought: for better is a mischief, then an inconvenience. So that jus polliticum, though it be not of it selfe just, yet by applicacon, or rather necessitie, it is made just; and this only respect maketh all lawe just. Nowe then, if these lawes of Ireland be not likewise applied and fitted for that Realme, they are sure verie inconvenient.

Eudoxus

You reason stronglie; but what unfitness doe you fynde in them for that Realme? shewe us some particulers.

Irenius

The common lawe appointeth that all trialls, aswel of crymes as titles and ryghtes, shall be made by verdict of Jurye, chosen out of the honestist and most substancal free-holders: Nowe all the ffree-holders of that Realme are Irishe, which when the cause shall fall betwene an Irishe man and an Englyshe, or betwene the Quene and any ffreeholder of that countrye, they make no more scruple to passe against the Englisheman or the Quene, though it bee to strain theire oaths, then to drinke milke unstrayned. So that before the jury goe togeather, it is all to nothing what theire verdict will be. The tryall thereof have I so often sene, that I dare confidentlie avouche the abuse thereof: Yet is the lawe of it selfe, as I said, good; and the first institucon thereof being given to all Englishemen verie rightfull, but nowe that the Yrishe have stepped in to the rowmes of the Englishe, who are nowe become so hedefull and provident to keepe them forth from thensforth, that they make no scruple of conscience to passe against them, it is good reason that either that corse of the Lawe for trialls be altered, or that other provision for juries be made.

Eudoxus

In soothe, Irenius: you have discovered a point worth the consideracon. For hereby not onelie the Englishe subject fyndeth no indifferencie in decidinge of his cause, be it never so just; but also the Quene, aswell in all pleas of the crowne, as also for all inquiries of escheate: lands attainted, wardshipps, concealements, and all suche like, is abused, and exceedinglie endamaged.

Irenius

You saie verie true; For I dare undertake, that at this daie there are more attainted landes, concealed from her Majestie, then she hath possessions in all Ireland: and that is no smale Inconvenience: for, besides that she looseth so moche land as should turne ther to her greate proffitt, she besides looseth so many good subjectes, which might be assured to her, as those landes would yelde inhabitantes and living unto.

Eudoxus

But does that people, saie you, make no moer conscience to perjuer them selfes in there verdicts, and to dampne there sowles?

Irenius

Not onelie so in there verdictes, but also in all other there dealings, speciallie with the Englishe, they are most willfullie bent: for though they will not seme manifestlye to doe it, yet will some one or other subtile headed fellowe amongest them pick some quirke, or devyse some subtile evasion, whereof the rest will lightlie take hold of, and suffer them selves easilie to be ledd by him to that them selves desired: ffor in the most apparant matter that can be, the least question or dowbt that can be moved, will make stop unto them, and put them quite out of the way. Besides that, of them selves, they are for the most parte, so cautelous and wylie headed, especiallie being men of so smale experience and practize in lawe matters, that you would wonder whence they borrowe suche subtilties and slye shiftes.

Eudoxus

But mee thinke, this inconvenience might be moche helped in the judges and chief majestrates which have the choosinge and nominatinge of those Jurors, yf they would have care to appoint either most Englishmen, or suche Yrishemen as were of the sowndest disposition: for wee dowbt not but some there bee incorruptible.

Irenius

Some there be in dede as you saie; but then woulde the Irishe partie cry out of partialitie, and complayne he hath not Justice, he is not used as a subject, he is not suffered to have the free benefitt of the lawe: And theis outcryes the majestrates there doe moch shune, as they have cause, since they are so reddelie harkened unto here; neither can it be indede, although the Irishe partie would be content to be so compassed, that such englishe freeholders, which are but fewe, and such faithful yrishmen, which are in dede as few, shall alwaies be chosen for trialls: ffor beinge so fewe, they shoulde sone be made wearie of theire freeholdes. And therefore a good care is to be had by all occasions to encrease theire nomber, and to plant more by them. But were it so that the Juries could bee picked out of suche choise men as you desire, there would nevertheles be as bad a corrupcon in the triall: ffor the evidence beinge brought in by the base Irishe people, will be as deceiptfull as the verdictes: for they care muche lesse then the others what they sweare, and sure theire lordes may compell them to saie any thing: ffor my self have heard when one of that base sort, which they call charles, being challenged, and reprooved for his false oathe, have answered confidentlie, that his lord commaunded him, and that it was the least thing he could doe for his lord, to sweare for him: so inconscionable are theis common people, and so litle feeling have they of god, or theire owne sowles good.

Eudoxus

It is a most miserable case: but what helpe can there be in this? ffor though the manner of the triall shoulde be altered, yet the proofe of every thinge must nedes be by the testimonies of such persons as the parties shall produce: which if they shall corrupt, however can there any light of truthe appeare? what remedy is there for this evill, but to make heavie lawes and penalties against jurors?

Irenius

I thinke sure that will do smale good: ffor when a people are inclyned to any vice, or have no towche of conscience, nor sence of theire evill doinge, yt is booteles to thinke to restrayne them by any penalties or feare of punishment; but either the occacon is to be taken awaie, or a more understandinge of the right, or shame of the fault is to be imprinted. For if Lycurgus should have made it deathe for the Lacedemonians to steale, they beinge a people which naturallie delighted in stealth, or if it shoulde be made a capitall cryme for the Fflemminges to be taken in drunkennes, there should have been fewe Lacedemonians soone left, and fewer Fflemminges: so unpossible it is to remove any fault so generall in a people, with terror of lawes or more sharpe restraintes.

Eudoxus

What meanes may there be then to avoide this inconvenience? for the cause sure semes verie harde.

Irenius

Wee are not yet come to that point to devyse remedies for the evills, but onlie have nowe to recompt them; of the which this that I have tolde you is one defect in the common Lawe.

Eudoxus

Tell us then, I praie you further, have you any more of this sorte in the common Lawe?

Irenius

By rehersall of this, I remember also of an other like, which I have often observed in trialls to have wrought greate hurt and hinderance, and that is, the excepcons which the common Lawe alloweth a fellon in his triall:. ffor he may have, as you knowe, xxxvj excepcons peremptorye against the Jurors, of which he shall shewe no cause, and as many as he will of suche, as he can shew cause. By which shifte there beinge, as I have shewed you suche smale store of honest Jurie men, he will either put of his trial, or drive it to such men as perhapps are not of the sowndest sorte, by whose meanes, yf he can acquite him self of the cryme, as he is likelie, then will he plage suche as were brought first to be of his jury,and all suche as made any partie against him, and when he comes forth, will make theire cowes and garrons to walke, yf he doe not other mischief to theire persons.

Eudoxus

This is a slye device, but I thinke might sone be remedied: but wee must leave it a while with the rest: in the meane tyme doe you goe forward with others.

Irenius

There is another no lesse inconvenient then this, which is for the triall of accessaries to felony: ffor, by the common Lawe, the accessarie can not be proceeded against till the principall have receyved his triall. Nowe the case often falleth in Ireland that a stealth beinge made by a rebell, or an outlawe, the stolen goodes are conveyed to some husbandman or gente, which hath well to take to, and yet liveth most by the receipt of suche stealthes, where they are found by the owner, and handled: whereuppon the party perhapps is apprehended and committed to gaole, or putt uppon suerties, till the Sessions, at which the owner, preferring a bill of Indictment, proveth sufficiently the stealth to have been committed vppon him by suche an outlawe, and to have ben found in the possession of the prisoner, against whom, nevertheles, no [course] of Lawe can proceede, nor triall can be had, for that the principall thiefe is not to be gotten, notwithstandinge that he likewise, standeth perhapps indicted at once with the receyver, beinge in rebellion or in the woodes, where peradventure he is slayne before he is taken, and so the receivor cleane acquited and discharged of the cryme. By which means the thieves are greatlie encouraged to steale, and theire mainteyners imboldned to receive theire stealthes, knowing howe hardlie they can be brought to any triall of lawe.

Eudoxus

Trulie this is a greate inconvenience, and a great cause, as you saie, of the maintenance of theeves, knowinge theire receivors alwaies readie; ffor, would there be no receivors, there would be no theeves. But this, me semes might easelie be provided for by some act of Parliament, that the receivor being convicted by good proofes, might receive his triall without the Principall.

Irenius

You saie very true, Eudoxus but that is almost impossible to be compassed. And herein also you discover another imperfeccon in the course of the common Lawe, and first ordynance of the Realme; for you knowe that the said Parliament must consist of the peeres, gentlemen, freeholders, and burgesses of that Realme it self. Nowe theis beinge perhappes them selves, or the most parte of them (as maye seeme by theire stif withstandinge of this act) culpable of this cryme, or favorers of theire friendes, which are suche by whom theire kitchens are sometymes amended, will not suffer any suche statute to passe. Yet hathe it oftentymes ben attempted, and in the tyme of Sir John Perott verye earnestlie, I remember, labored, but by no meanes could be effected: And not onelie this, but many other like, which are as nedeful for the reformacon of that Realme.

Eudoxus

This also is surelie a great defect; but wee maye not talke, you saie, of the redressing of this, untyll our seconde parte come, which is purposelye appointed thereunto. Therefore procede to the recountinge of moe suche evilles, yf at leaste you have any more.

Irenius

There also is a greate inconvenience, which has wrought greate dammadge to her Majestie, and to that Common wealth, through close and collorable conveyances of the landes and goodes of Traytors, fellons, and fugitives: as, when one of them mindeth to goe into rebellyon: he will convey away all his landes and Lordships to foeffes in trust, wherby he reserveth to himselfe but a state for term of lief which beinge determined either by the sword or by the haulter, theire Lande streighte commeth to the heire, and the queene is defrauded of the intent of the Lawe, which layed that grivyous punishment upon Traytors to forfeite all theire landes to the Prince, to the ende that men might be the rather terrefied from commyttinge treasons: ffor many which would little esteeme theire owne lyves, yet for remorse of theire wyves and children, shoulde bee withheld from that hayneous cryme. This appeared playnelie in the late Earle of Desmond: ffor before his breakinge forth into open rebellyon he hade conveyed secretelie all his landes to feoffes of trust, in hope to have cutt of her Majestie from the escheate of his landes.

Eudoxus

Yea, but that was well ynoughe avoyded; ffor the acte of Parliament which gave all his landes to the queene did, (as I have hearde,) cutt of and frustrate all suche conveyaunces, as had any tyme, by the space of xii yeres before his rebellyon, bene made: within the Compasse whereof, that fraudulent feoffment, and many other the like of his accomplisses and fellow-Traytors were contayned.

Irenius

Very true, but how hardlie that acte of Parliament was wrounge out of them, I cann wytnes: and were yt to be compassed againe, I dare undertake it would never be compassed. But were yt soe that such actes might easilie be brought to passe against Traytors and fellons, yet were yt not an endless trouble, that no Traytor nor fellon should be attaynted, but a Parliament must be called for bringinge his landes to the queene, which the Common Lawe geveth her.

Eudoxus

Then this is no faulte of the Common Lawe, but of the persons which worke this fraude to her Majestie.

Irenius

Yes, mary, for the Common Lawe hath left them this benefitt, whereof they make advantage, and wrest yt to theire bad purposes. Soe as they are thereby the bolder to enter into evill accons, knowinge that yf the worste befall them, they shall loose nothinge but themselves: whereof they seme surely verye careles, as Caesar in his Commentaryes sayth, are very fearles of death.

Eudoxus

But what meane you of fugitives herein? or how doth this concerne them?

Irenius

Yes, very greatly: for yee shall understand that there be many ill disposed and undutyfull persons of that Realme, like as in this pointe there are allso in the Realme of England, too many, which beinge men of good inheritance, are for the dislike of religion, or danger of the law into which they are run, or discontent of the present government, fled beyond the seas, where they lyve under Princes that are her Majesties professed Enemies, and converse and are confederate with other Traytors and fugytives which are there abidinge. The which nevertheles have the benefitt and profittes of their landes here, by pretence of suche cullorable conveyances thereof, formerlie made by them to theire pryvie frendes here in trust, whoe secretly sende over unto them the saide revenewes, wherwith they are there maintayned and enabled against her Majestie.

Eudoxus

I doe not thinke that there be any such fugitives which are releived by the profitt of theire lands in England: ffor there is a straighter order taken. And yf there bee any such in Ireland, yt were good yt were likewise looked unto: for this evil may easelie be remedied: but proceede.

Irenius

Yt is also inconvenient in the Realme of Ireland, that the wardes and marriadges of gentlemens Children should be in the disposicon of any of these Irish Lords, as nowe they are, by reason that theire landes are helde by knightes service of those Lords, as now they are. By which meanes yt cometh to passe, that those said gentlemens children, beinge thus in the warde of those Lords, are not only thereby brought up lewdlie and Irishe like, but allso for ever after soe bounden to theire services, as that they will runne with them into any disloyall accon.

Eudoxus

This grievance, Irenaeus, is allso complayned of in Ingland; but how can yt bee remedied? since the service must followe the tenure of the landes, and the landes were geven awaye by the Kinges of England to those Lords, when they first conquered that Realme: and to say the truth, this allso would be some prejudice to the Prince in her Wardship.

Irenius

I doe not mean this by the Princes warde, but by suche as fall into the handes of the Irish Lordes: for I could wishe and this I woulde enforce, that all those wardships were in the Princes disposicon, for then yt might be hooped that she, for the universall reformacon of that realme, woulde take better order for the brininge up of those wardships in good nourture, and not suffer them to come into so bad handes. And thoughe these thinges be alreadie passed awaye by her progenitors former graunts unto those said Lords, yet I coulde find a way to remedie a greate paret thereof, as hereafter, when fytt time serveth, shall appeare. And since wee are entred into speache of such grauntes of former princes to sondrie persons of that Realme of Ireland, I will mencon unto you some other, of like nature to this, and of like inconvenyence, by which the Kinges of England passed unto them a greate parte of theire prerogatyves, which though then yt were well intended, and perhaps well deserved of them which receaved the same, yet nowe such a gapp of mischiefe lieth open thereby, that I could wish it weare stopped. Of this sorte are the grauntes of the Countyes Palletynes in Ireland, which though at first were graunted upon good consideracon when they were first conquered, for that those lands lay then as a very border to the wylde Irish, subject to contynewall invasion, soe as yt was needeful to geve them greate privileges to the defense of the inhabitants therof; yet now that it is no more a border, nor frontiered with enemies, why should such pryviledges be any more contynewed?

Eudoxus

I would gladlie knowe what you call a county Pallentyne, and whence yt is so called.

Irenius

It was as I suppose first named Pallatyne of a Pale, as yt were a pale and defence to their innere landes, soe as now yt is called the English Pale, and therof allso is a Palsgrave named, that is an Earle Palentyne. Others thincke of the Latyne, Palare, that is, to foraige or outrune, because that marchers and borderers use commonly soe to doe. So as to have a County Pallentyne is in effecte but to have a priviledge to spoile the Enemyes borders adjoyninge. And surely soe yt is used at this day, as a priviledged place of spoiles and stealthes; for the County of Tipperarie, which is nowe the only County Pallentyne in Ireland, is by abuse of some bad ones, made a receptacle to rob the rest of the Countryes about yt. By meanes of whose priviledges none will follow theire stealthes, soe as yt, beinge scytuate in the very [lap] of all the land, is made nowe a border, which how inconvenient yt is, let every man judge. And though that right noble man, that is the lord of that libertye, doe payne him selfe all that he may to yeilde equall Justice unto all, yet cann there not but greate abuses lurke in soe inward and absolute a priviledginge, consideracon whereof is to be respected carefully, for the next succession. And much like unto this graunte there are also other priviledges graunted unto most of the Corporacons there; that they shal not be bounde to any other goverment then theire owne; that they shall not be charged with any garrisons; that they shall not be travaelled forth of theire owne franchises; that they may buye and sell with theves and Rebells; that all amercements and fynes which shalbe ymposed upon them shall come unto themselves. All which, though att the tyme of theire first grante they were tollerable, and perhapes reasonable, yet nowe are most unresonable and inconvenyent. But all these will easilie be cutt of with the superior power of her Majestys prerogatyve, against which her owne grauntes are not to be pleaded nor enforced.

Eudoxus

Nowe truelie, Irenius, you have, meseemes, very well handled this pointe touchinge inconvenyences in the Common Lawe there, by you observed, and yt seemeth that you have had a myndefull regard unto the thinges that may concerne the good of that Realme. And yf you cann aswell goe through with the Statute Lawes of that lande, I will thincke you have not lost all your tyme there. Therefore, I praye you, nowe take them to you in hande and tell us what you thincke to be amisse in them.

Irenius

The Statutes of that realme are not manie, and therefore wee shall the sooner run through them. And yet of those fewe there are sondrie impertinent and unnecessarie: the which perhappes though at the tyme of the making of them were very needful, yet nowe through chainge of time are cleane antiquated, and altogether idle: As that which forbiddeth any to weare theire beardes all on theire upper lip, and none under the chynne, and that which putteth away saffron shirts and smockes, and that which restryneth the usinge of guylte bridles and pettronells, and that which appointed to the recorders and Clarkes of Dubline and Drodagh, to take but ijd. for the Coppie of a playnt, and that which commandeth bowes and arrowes, and that which maketh that all Irishmene that shall converse amonge the Englishe shalbe taken for spies, and soe punished, and that which forbiddeth persons ameanable to lawa to enter and distrayne in the lands in the which they have tittle; and many other the like which I could rehearse.

Eudoxus

These, trulie, which you have repeated, seme very fryvolous and fruitles; for by the breach of them little dammage or inconvenience cann come to the Common-Wealth, nether, indeede, yf any transgresse them, shall he seeme worthie of punishment, scarce of blame, savinge be that they abide by the names of lawes. But lawes ought to be suche, as that the keepinge of them should be greatlie for the behoofe of the Common-Wealth, and the violatinge of them should be very haynous, and sharply punishable. But tell us of some more weightie dislikes in the Statutes then these, and that may be more behouefull importe the reformacon of them.

Irenius

There is one or two statutes which make the wrongfull destrayninge of any mans goods against the forme of Common Lawe to be fellony. The which statutes seeme surelie to have benn at firste meant for the greate good of that Realme, and for restrayninge of a fowle abuse, which then raigned commonly amongst that people, and yet is not altogether layed aside; that when anyone was indebted to another, he would first demaunde his debt, and yf he were not paied, he would streighte goe and take a distres of his goods or Cattel, where he could finde them, to the value: which he would keepe tyll he were satisfied, and this the simple Churle (as they call him) doth commonly use to doe yet, thorough ignorance of his misdoing, or evill use that hath longe settled amongest them. But this, though it be sure most unlawfull, yet surely me seemes to hard to make it death, since there is no purpose in the partie to steale the others goods, or to conceale the distres, but doth yt openly, for the most parte before witnesses. And againe, the same statutes are soe slackelie pende, besides that latter of them is so vnsensiblye contryved that yt scarse carrieth any reason in yt, that they are often and very easily wrested to the fraude of the subjecte; as yf one goinge to distrayne upon his land or Tenemente, where lawfully he may, yet yf in doinge therof he transgres the leaste point of the Common Lawe, he streightly commiteth fellonie. Or if one by any other occasion take any thing from another, as boys use sometimes to cap one another, the same is straight fellony. This is a very harde lawe.

Eudoxus

Nevertheles the evill use of distrayninge another mans goods, you will not deny but is to be abolished and taken awaye.

Irenius

Yt is soe, but not by takinge awaye the subjecte withall; for that is to violent a medycine, speciallie this use beinge permitted, and made lawfull to some, and to other some, death. As to most of the Corporate Townes there, it is graunted by theire charter, that they may, every man by himselfe, without an officer (for that were more tollerable) for any debt, to distrayne the goods of any Irishe, beinge founde within theire liberty, or but passinge through theire Townes. And the first permissyon of this was for that in those tymes when that graunt was made, the Irishe were not amesnable to lawe, soe as yt was not saifetie for the Townesman to goe to him forth to demaund his debt, nor possible [to] drawe him into lawe, soe that he had leve to be his owne bayliffe, to arrest his saide debtors goods within his owne franchise. The which the Irish seinge, thought yt as lawfull for them to distrayne the Townesmans goods in the countrey where they founde yt. And soe [by] ensample of that graunt to Townes-men, they thought yt lawfull, and made yt an use to distrayne one anothers goods for smale debtes. And to say truth, me thinkes yt hard for every tryflyng debt of 2 or 3s. to be dryven to lawe, which is so far from them sometymes to be sought, for which me thinkes yt were an heavy ordinance to geve death, especyally to a rude man that is ignorant of Lawe, and thinketh a common use or graunt to other men a lawe for himselfe.

Eudoxus

Yea, but the Judge, when it commeth before him to triall, may easilie deside this doubte, and lay open the intent of the lawe by his better discrecon.

Irenius

Yea, but yt is daingerous to leave the sense of a lawe unto the reason or will of Judges, whoe are men and may bee miscaryed, by affeccions, and many other meanes. But the lawes ought to be like to stony tables, playne, stedfast, and ymmoveable. There is allso suche another statute or twoe, which make Coigne or lyverye to bee treason, no lesse inconvenient then the former, beinge, as yt is penned, howe ever the first purpose thereof were expedient; for thereby nowe noe man cann goe into anothers howse for Lodginge, nor to his owne Tenants howse to take victuall by the waye, notwithstandinge that there is no other meanes for him to have lodgings or horse meate, nor mans meate, there beinge noe Innes, nor none otherwise to bee bought for money, but that he is indaingered to that Statute of Treason, whensoever he shall happen to falle out with his Tennant, or that his said hoste list to complaine of grevance, as oftentymes I have seene them very malishiouslie doe thorowe the least provocation.

Eudoxus

I do not well knowe, but by gesse, what you doe meane by these termes of Coigne and Lyvery: therefore, I praye you explaine them.

Irenius

I knowe not whether the wordes be Englishe or Irishe, but I suppose them rather to be auncyent Englishe, for the Irishemen Englishe cann make no derivacon or analogie of them. What lyverie is, wee by Common use doe knowe well enough, that it is allowance of horsemeate, as commonly they use the word in stabline, as to keep horses at liverye; the which worde, as I gesse, is deryved of liveringe or delivering forth theire nightlie foode. Soe in greate howses, the lyvery is said to be served up for all night, that is theire eveninges allowance of drinke. And lyvery is allso called the [upper] garment which a serving man weareth, soe called, as I suppose, for that yt was delyvered or taken from him at pleasure: So yt is apparant, that by the worde Liverie is there meante horsemeate, like as by the word Coigny is understood mans meat: But whence the worde is deryved is very hard to tell. Some say of coyne, for that they vsed [commonly] in theire Coignes, not only to take meate, but coyne allso; and that that takinge of money was specyally meante to be prohibited by that statute: But I thinke rather this word Coignye is deryved of the Irishe. The which is a common use amongest the cheife landelords, to have a common spendinge upon theire Tennants; for all theire tennants, being commonly but tennants att will, they use to take of them what victuall they list, ffor of victualls they were wounte to make smale reconinge: neither in this was the Tennante wronged, for yt was an ordinarie and knowen custome, and his lord commonly used so to covenante with him, which yf at any tyme the tennante disliked, he might freelie departe at his pleasure. But nowe by this statute the Irishe lord is wronged, for that he is cutt of from his customary services, of the which this was one, besides many other of the like, as Cuddie, Cossherie, Bonnagh, Shragh, Sorehin, and such others, the which I thinke at first were customes brought in by the Englishe upon the Irishe, the which were never wonte, and yet are loath to yeilde any certen rent, but onlye such spendinges: for theire common sayinge is: Spende me and defende me.

Eudoxus

Surely I take yt as you saye, that therein the Irishe Lord hath wronge, since yt was an auncyent custome, and nothinge contrarie to lawe, for to the willinge there is no wronge done: And this right well I wott, that, even here in England, there are in many places as strange Customes as that of Coygnie and lyverye. But I suppose by your speache, that yt was the first meaninge of the [statute] to forbid the violent takinge of victualls upon other mens Tenants against theire willes, which surelie is a greate outraige, and yet not soe greate me seemes, as that yt shoulde be made Treason: for consideringe that the nature of Treason is concerninge the royall estate or person of the prince, or practizinge wyth his enemies to the derogacon and dainger of his crowne and dignitie, yt is hardlie wrested to make this treason. But as you erst said, Better a mischiefe then an inconvenience.

Irenius

Another statute I remember, which havinge been an ancyent Irishe custome is nowe upon advisement made an Englishe lawe, and that is called the Custome of Kincougish, which is, that every heade of everie sept and every chiefe of every kindred or familie, should be required answerable and bound to bring foorth every one of that sept and kindred under it at all times to be justified, when he should be required or charged with any treason, felony or other haynous crime.

Eudoxus

Whie, surely this seemes a very necessary lawe. For considering that many of them bee such losells and scatterlinges, as that they cannot easily by any sheriffe, Constable, Bayliffe, or other ordinary officer be gotten, when they are challenged for any such facte; this is a very good meanes to gett them to be brought in by him that is the heade of the septe or chiefe of that howse: wherefore I wonder what [just] excepcon ye cann make against the same.

Irenius

True, Eudoxus, in the pretence of the good of this statute, yee have nothinge erred, for yt seemeth very expedient and necessarie: But the hurte which cometh thereby is greater then the good. For, whilest every chiefe of a septe standeth soe bounde to the lawe for every man that is of his bloud or sept that is under him inclusive, every one of his sept is put under him and he is made greate by the commaundinge of them all. For yf he may not commaund them, then that lawe doth wronge that bindeth him to bringe them forth to bee justified: and yf he may commaund them, then he may commaund them aswell to yll as to good. Hereby the lords and captaines of the countries, the principalls and heades of septs, are made stronger, whome yt shoulde be a most specyall care in pollicie to weaken, and to sett up, and strengthen divers of his underlines against him, which whensoever he shall offer to swarve from dutye, may be able to bearde him; for it is very daingerous to leave the command of soe many as some septes are, beinge v or vi thowsande persons, to the will of one man, whoe may leade them to what he will, as he himselfe shall be inclyned.

Eudoxus

In very deede, Irenius, yt is very daingerous, especially seinge the disposicon of those people not allwayes inclynable to the best. And therefore I hold yt noe wisedome to leave unto them, to much commaund over theire kindred, but rather to withdrawe theire followers from them asmuch as may bee, and to gather them under the commaund of lawe by some better meane than this custome of Kincougish. The which word I woulde bee glad to knowe what yt namely signifieth, for the meaninge thereof I seeme to understand reasonabe well.

Irenius

It is a worde mingled of Englishe and Irish together, so I am partlye led to thinke, that the custome thereof was first Englishe and afterwardes Irish, for suche an other lawe they had here in Englande, as I remember, made by Kinge Alured, that every gentleman should contynually bringe forth his kindred and followers to the lawe. So Kin is Englishe and Coughish signifieth affinitie in Irishe.

Eudoxus

Sith then that wee have thus reasonablie handled the inconveniences in the lawes, lett us nowe passe unto your second parte, which was, as I remember, of the abuses of Customes; in which, me seemes, yee have a fayre champion laied open unto you, in which yee may at large stretch out your discourse into many sweete remembrances of Antiquities, from whence yt seemeth that the customes of that natyon proceede.

Irenius

Indeede, Eudoxus you say very true; for all the customes of the Irishe which I have very often noted and compared with that I have red, would mynister occasion of most ample discourse of the first originall of them, and the antiquitie of that people, which in truth I doe thinke to bee more auncient then most that I know in this ende of the worlde; so as yf it were in the handlinge of some man of sound judgement and plentifull readinge, it would be most pleasant and profitable. But yt may bee wee may, at some other time of meetinge, take occasion to treate thereof more at large. Here only it shall suffice to touch such Customes of the Irish as seeme offensive and repugnant to the good government of that Realme.

Eudoxus

Followe then your owne corse, for I shall the better content my selfe to forbeare my desire nowe, in hope that you will, as you say, some other time more abuondantly satisfie yt.

Irenius

Before wee enter into the treatise of theire Customes, yt is first needfull to consider from whence they sproung, for from the sundrie mannors of the nations, from whence that people which nowe are called Irishe were derived, some of the customes which nowe remayne amongest them have benn fetcht, and since they have benn contynwed amongest them; for not of one nacyon was that people as yt is, but of sondrie people of different condicons and manners: But the chief which have first possessed, and inhabited yt, I suppose to be Scythians.

Eudoxus

How commeth it then to passe, that the Irish doe derive themselves from Gathelus the Spaniard.

Irenius

They doe indeed, but (I conceive) without any good ground. For if there were any such notable transmission of a colony hether out of Spaine, or any such famous conquest of this kingdome by, Gathelus, a Spaniard, as they would faine believe, it is not unlikely, but the very Chronicles ofSpaine (had Spaine then beene in so high regard as they now have it) would not have omitted so memorable a thing, as the subduing of so noble a realme to the Spaniard, no more then they doe now neglect to memorize their conquest of the Indians, especially in those times, in which the same was supposed, being nearer unto the flourishing age of learning and writers under the Romanes. But the Irish doe heerein no otherwise, then our vaine English-men doe in the Tale of Brutus, whom they devise to have first conqured and inhabited this land, it being as impossible to proove, that there was ever any such Brutus of Albion or England, as it is, that there was any such Gathelus of Spaine. But surely the Scythians (of whom I earst spoke) which at such tyme as the Northerne Nations overflowed all Christendome, came downe to the Sea coste, where enquiringe for other countryes abroade, and gettinge intelligence of this Countrye of Irelande, finding shippinge convenient, passed over thither, and arived in the North parte thereof, which is now called Ulster, which first inhabiting, and afterwardes stretchinge themselves forth into the Ilande as theire nombers encreased, named yt all of themselves Scuttenlande, which more briefly is called Scutland, [or] Scotland.

Eudoxus

I wonder, Irenius, whether you runne so farre astraye; for whilst wee talke of Ireland me thinkes you rippe up the originall of Scotland; but what is that to this?

Irenius

Surelie very much, for Scotland and Ireland are one and the same.

Eudoxus

That seemeth more strange; for wee all knowe right well that they are distinguished, with a greate sea runninge betweene them; or else there are twoe Scotlands.

Irenius

Never the more are there twoe Scotlands, but twoe kindes of Scotts there were indeede, as you may gather out of Buchanan, the one Irine or Irishe Scotts, the other Albyne Scotts; for those Scotts or Scythians arrived, as I supposed, in the North parts of the Island, where some of them afterwards passed into the next coaste of Albyne, nowe called Scotland, which, after much trouble, they possessed, and of themselves named yt Scotland; but in process of tyme, as is commonly seene, the denominac[o]n of the part prevailed in the whole, for the Irishe Scotts puttinge away the name of Scotts, were called only Irishe, and Albyne Scotts, leavinge the name of Albyne, were called only Scotts. Therefore yt cometh of some wryters, that Ireland is called Scotia-major, and that which nowe is named Scotland, is called Scotia-minor.

Eudoxus

I doe nowe well understande your distinguishing of the twoe sortes of Scotts, and twoe Scottlands, howe that this which is nowe called Irelande was auncyently called Erine, and afterwardes of some wrytten Scotland, and that which is nowe called Scotland was formerlie called Albyn, before the cominge of the Scutts thither: But what other Nations inhabited thother partes of Irelande?

Irenius

After this people thus planted in the north or before, (for the certaintie of tymes in thinges soe farre from all knowledge cannot bee justlie avouched), another nation cominge out of Spaine aryved in the West part of Irelande, and findinge it waste, or weakelie inhabited, possessed yt; who whether they were native Spaniards, or Gaules or Affricans or Goaths, or some other of those Northerne Nations which did spread all over-spred all Christendome, it is impossible to affirme, onlie some naked conjectures may be gathered; but that out of Spaine certenlie they came, that doe all the Irishe Cronicles agree.

Eudoxus

You doe verie boldlie, Irenius, venture upon the histories of auncyent tymes, and leane too confidently unto those Irishe Cronicles which are moste fabulous and forged, in that out of them you dare take in hande to laye open the Originall of a nation soe antique, as that noe monument remaynes of her begynninge and [firste] inhabitinge there; specially havinge bene allwayes without letters, but only bare tradicons of tymes and remembrances of bardes, which use to forge and falsifye every thinge as they liste to please or displease any man.

Irenius

Trulie I must confesse I doe soe, but yet not so absolutelie as yee suppose. But I doe herein relye upon those bardes or Irishe Cronicles, though the Irishe themselves, through their ignorance in matters of learninge and deepe judgement, doe most constantly beleve and avouch them. But unto them besides I adde my owne readinge; and out of them both togeather, with comparison of tymes, likenes of manners and customes, affinitie of words and names, properties of natures and uses, resemblances of rights and ceremonies, monuments of Churches and Tombes, and many other like circumstances I doe gather a likelyhood of truth; not certenly affirminge any thinge, but by conferringe of tymes, language, monuments, and such like, I doe hunt out a probabilitie of thinges, which I leave unto your judgement to beleve or refuse. Nevertheles there bee some very auncyent authors which make mencyon of those thinges, and some moderne, which by comparinge of them with the present tymes, experience, and theire owne reason, doe open a wyndow of greate light unto the rest, that is yet unsene; as namely, of the oulder, Caesar, Strabo, Tacitus, Ptolemie, Plinie, Solinus, Pompeus Mela, and Berosus; of the latter, Vincentius, Æneas Silvius, Ludus, Buckhanan, [of all of which I do give most credit unto Buchanan] for that he himselfe, being an Irishe Scott or Picte by nacon, and beinge very excellently learned, and industrious to seeke out the truth of these thinges concerninge the originall of his owne people, hath both sett downe the testimonies of the auncyents truly, and his owne opinion withall very reasonablie, though in some thinges he doth somewhat flatter. Besides, the Bardes and Irish Croniclers themselves, though through desier of pleasinge perhappes to much, and ignorance of arte and pure learninge, they have [clouded] the truth of those tymes; yet there appeareth amongest them some Reliques of the true antiquitie, though disguised, which a well eyed man may happilie discover and finde out.

Eudoxus

How cann there bee any truth in them at all, since the auncyent nations which first inhabited Ireland were altogether destitute of letters, much more of learninge, by which they might leave the veritie of things wrytten. And those bardes comminge alsoe soe many hundred yeres after, could not knowe what was done in former ages, nor delyver certenty of any thinge, but what they feyned out of theire unlearned heades.

Irenius

Those bardes indeede, Cesar writeth, delyver no certen truth of any thinge, nether is there any certen holde to be taken of any antiquitie which is receaved by tradiccon, since all men bee lyars, and [may] lye when they will; but yet for auncyentnes of the wrytten Cronicles of Ireland, geve me leave to say somethinge, not to justifie them, but to showe that some of them might say truth. For where yee say that the Irish have allwayes benn without letters, yee are therein much deceaved, for yt is certen, that Ireland hath had the use of letters very auncientlie, and longe before England.

Eudoxus

Is yt possible? how comes yt then that they are so barbarous still, and soe unlearned, beinge soe olde scollers? For learninge as the Poett saith, emollit mores nec sinit esse feros: whence then I pray you coulde they have those letters?

Irenius

It is harde to saye: for whether they at theire first comminge into the land, or afterwardes by tradinge with other Nations which hade letters, learned them of them, or devised them amongest themselves, [it is very doubtful. But that they had letters anciently, it is nothing doubtful,] for the Saxons of Englande are saide to have theire letters, and Learninge, and learned men, from the Irishe; and that also appeareth by the likenes of the Carracter, for the Saxons carracter is the same with the Irishe. Now the Scythians never, I cann reade, of oulde had letters among them: therefore yt seemeth that they had them from the nacyon which came out of Spaine, for in Spaine there was (as Strabo wryteth) letters auncyently used, whether brought unto them by the Phenicians, or the Persians, which as yt appeareth by him) had some footinge there, or from Marseles, which is saide to have been inhabited by the Greekes, and from them to have had the Greeke carracter; of the which Marsilianns yt is said, that the Gaules learned them first, and used only for the furtherance of theire trades and private busines: for the Gaules (as is stronglie to be proved by many au ncyent and authenticall wryters) first inhabite all the sea coste of Spaine even unto Cales and the mouth of the Streights, and peopled also a greate parte of Italie, which appeareth by sundrie Citties and havens in Spaine called of them, as Portingalia, Gallecia, Galdunum; and also by sundrie nacons therein dwellinge, which yet have reseaved theire owne names of the Gaules, as the Rhegnie, Presamarie, Tamariti, Cineri, and divers others. All which Pompeius Mela, beinge himselfe a Spaniarde, yet saith to have descended from the Celtics of Fraunce, whereby yt is to be gathered, that that nacon which came out of Spain into Ireland were auncientlie Gaules, and that they brought with them those letters which they had learned in Spain, first into Ireland, the which some allso saye doe muche resemble the olde Phenicon carracter, beinge likewise distinguished with pricke and accent, as theires auncyentlie; but the further enquirie thereof needeth a place of longer discourse than this our shorte conference.

Eudoxus

Surelie you have showed a greate probabilitie of that which I had thought impossible to have benn proved; but that which you nowe saye, that Ireland shoulde have benn peopled with the Gaules, seemeth much more strainge, for all theire Cronicles doe say that the west and south was possessed and inhabited of Spaniards: and CorneliusTacitus doth allso stronglie affirme the same, all which you must either overthrowe and falsifie or renounce your opinion.

Irenius

Neither so, nor soe, for the Irish Cronicles, as I said unto you, beinge made by unlearned men, and wrytinge thinges accordinge to the apparance of the truth which they conceyved, doe erre in the circumstances, not in the matter. For all that came out of Spain (they beinge no diligent searchers into the differences of the Nacyons) supposed to be Spaniards, and so called them, but the groundworke thereof is nevertheles (as I saide) true and certen, however, they through theire ignorance disguise the same, or through theire owne own vanitie whilst they would not seeme to bee ignorant, doe thereupon buylde and enlarge many forged histories of theire owne antiquitie, which they delyver to fooles and make them beleve them for true: as for example, that first of all one Gathelus the sonne of Cecropes, or Argos, who havinge married the Kinge of Egyps his daughter, thence sayled with her into Spain, and there inhabited: Then that of Nemedus and his fower sonnes, who coming out of Scythia peopled Ireland, and inhabited yt with his 2 sonnes twoe hundred and ffifty yeares, till he was overcome of the Gyants dwellinge then in Irelande, and at the last quite banished and rooted out. After whome two hundred yeres, the sonnes of one Dela, beinge Scythians, aryved there againe, and possessed the whole lande, of which the youngest, called Slaynius, in the ende made himselfe Monarch. Lastlie, of the iiij sonnes of Milesius Kinge of Spain, which conquered that land from the Scythians, and inhabitinge yt with Spaniards, called yt of the youngest Heberuus, Hibernia: all which are in truth mere fables, and very Milesian lyes, (as the lattine proverbe is;) for there was never such a Kinge of Spain called Milesius, nor any suche colony seated with his sonnes, as they fayne, that cann ever bee proued. But yet under these tales yee may in manner see the truth lurke. For Scythians, here inhabitinge, they name and doe speake of Spaniards whereby appeareth that both those nations here inhabited: but whether very Spaniards, (as the Irishe greatlie affecte), ys no way to be proved.

Eudoxus

Whence commeth it that the Irishe do soe greatlie covett to to fetch themselves from the Spaniards, since the olde Gaules are a more auncyent and much more honorable nation?

Irenius

Even of a very desier of newfanglenes and vanitie, for beinge as they are nowe accompted, the most barbarous Nation in Christendome, they to avoide that reproache woulde deryue them selves from the Spaniards, whom they now see to bee a very honorable people, and next borderinge unto them: But all that is most vaine; for from the Spaniard, that now is, is come from as rude and salvage nations as they, there beinge, as yt may be gathered by corse of ages and veiwe of theire owne histories (though they therein labored much to enoble themselves) scarse any dropp of the oulde Spanishe bloode left in them; for all Spain was first conquered by the Romaynes, and filled with Colonies from them, which were still encreased, and the native Spaniarde still cutt of. Afterwards the Carthaginians in all the longe Punicke Warres havinge spoiled all Spain, and in the ende subdued yt whollie tothem selves, did, (as yt is likelye) roote out all that were affected to the Romaynes. And lastly the Romaines, havinge againe recovered that countrye and beate out Hanniball, did doubtles cutt of all that had favored the Carthaginians, soe that betwixte them both, to and fro, there was scarse a native Spaniard left but all inhabited of Romaynes. All which tempests of troubles being overblowen, there longe after arose a newe storme more dreadfull then all the former, which over-ranne all Spain, and made an infinite confusion of all thinges; that was, the comming downe of the Gothes, the Hunnes, and the Vandalles, and lastly all the Nations of Scythia, which, like a mountaine flud, did overflowe all Spain, and quite drowned and washt away whatever relicts there were left of the land-bred people, yea and of all the Romaynes too. The which Northerne Nations findinge the complexion of that soile, and the vehement heate there farf different from theire natures, toke no felicitie in that country but from thence passed over, and did spread themselves into all Countries in Christendome, of all which there is none but hath some mixture or sprincklinge, yf not [thorough] peoplinge, of them. And yet after all those the Mores and Barbarians, breakinge over out of Africa, did finally possesse all Spain, or the moste parte therof, and treade downe under theire foule heathenishe feete what ever little they founde there yet standinge. The which, though afterwards they were beaten out by Ferdinando of Arragon, and [Isabell] his wife, yet they were not soe clensed, but that through the marriages which they had made, and mixture of the people of the land, during their long contynuance there, they had left no pure drop of Spanish bloode, nor of Romayne nor Scythian. Soe that all nacons under heaven, I suppose, the Spaniard is the most mingled, most uncerten, and most bastardlie; wherefore most foolishly doe the Irish thinke to enoble themselves by wrestinge theire auncestrie from the Spaniard, whoe is unable to deryve himselfe from any nacon certen.

Eudoxus

You speake very sharplie, Irenius, in dishonor of the Spaniard, whome some other boast to be the onelie brave souldier under the skye.

Irenius

Soe surely he is a very brave man; nether is that which I speake any thinge to his derogacon, for, in that I saide he is a mingled people, it is no disprayse; for I thinke there is no nation now in Christendome, nor much further, but is mingled, and compounded with others: Yt was a singuler providance of God, and a most admirable purpose of his wisedome, to drawe those Northerne Heathen Nacons downe into those Christian partes, where they might receave Christianitie, and to mingle nations soe remote soe miraculouslie, to make, as it were, one kindred and bloode of all people, and each to have knowledge of him.

Eudoxus

Nether have you sure any more dishonered the Irishe, for you have brought them from very greate and auncyent nations, as any were in the worlde, howe ever fondly they affecte the Spaniard. For both the Scythians and the Gaules were twoe as mightie nations as ever the worlde brought forth. But is there any token, denominacon or monument of the Gaules yet remayninge in Ireland as there is of Scythians?

Irenius

Yea surelie very many: for there is first in the Irish language many words of Gaules remayninge, and yet daylie used in common speach.

Eudoxus

Wher, what was the Gallish speach? is there any parte of yt still used amongest any nacon?

Irenius

The Gallish speeche is the very Brytishe, the which was generally used heere in all Bryttaine before the cominge of the Saxons: and yet is retayned of the Welchmen, the Cornishe men, and the Bryttains of Fraunce, though tyme,woorking alteracon of all thinges, and the tradinge and enterdeale with other nacons rounde about, have chaunged and greatly altered the dialecte thereof, but yet the originall wordes appeare to be the same, as who [that] lyste to reede in Cambden or Buckanan, may see at large. Besides, there be many places, as havens, hilles, townes, and castles, which yet beare names from the Galles; of the which Buckanan rehearseth above 3 hundred in Scottland, and I can (I thinke) recount neare as many in Ireland: Moreover there be of the olde Galles certaine nacons yett remayninge in Irelande which retaine the olde denominacons of the Galles, as the Manapij, the Cauci, the Venti and others;by all which and many other very reasonable probabilities, which this shorte course, will not suffer to be laid forth, it appeareth that the cheef inhabitantes in the Iland were Galles cominge thither first from Spayne, and afterwards from besides Tannius, where the Gothes, Hunnes, and the Getes sat downe, they allso beinge (as it is said) of some ancient Galles, and lastly passinge out of Gallia it self, from all the sea Coaste of Belgia and Celtica, into all the sotherne coastes of Ireland, which they possessed and inhabited, whereupon it is at this daye, amongst all the Irishe a common use to call any strange inhabitante there amongst them, Gald, that is, descended of [or] from the Gaules.

Eudoxus

This is very lykely, for even so did theis Gaules aunciently possesse and people all the Southerne coastes of our Brittaine, which yet retayne their old names, as the Belgeae in Somersetshier, Wiltshire and parte of Hampeshier. Atrebatij in Barkshier, Regni in Sussex and Surrey, with many others. Nowe thus far I understand your opinion, that the Scythians planted in the Northe parte of Ireland; the Spaniard (for so we call them) what euer they were that came from Spain, in the West; the Gaules in the Southe: so that there now remayneth onely the East partes towardes England, which I would be glad to understand from whom you thinke them to be peopled.

Irenius

Mary, from the Bryttons themselves, of which though their be lyttle footinge nowe remayning, by reason that the Saxons afterwardes and lastly the Englishe, drivinge out all the first inhabitantes thereof, did possesse and people the land themselves. Yet amongst the Tooles, the Brines, the Cavanaghes, and other nacons in Linster, there is some memorie of the Brytons remayninge: as the Tooles are called of the old Brytish woord Tol, that is, an hilly Country. the Brins of the Brytish word Brin, that is, Woody. And the Cavenaghes of Caune, that is, stronge. So that in thies three people, the very denominacon of the old Bryttons doth still remayne. Besides, when any flieth under the succor or protection of any against an enemy, he crieth unto him Commericke, that is Brytton Helpe, for the Brytton is called in his owne language, Commerouye. Furthermore to prove the same, Ireland is by Diodorus Siculus, and by Strabo, called Brytannia, and a parte of Greate Bryttaine. Finally, it appeareth by good Record yet extante that King Arthure, and before him Gurgunt, had all that Iland in his alleagiaunce and subjection: hereunto I could adde many probabilities of the names of places, persons, and speeches, as I did in the former, but they should be to longe for this place, and I reserve them for another. And thus you have hard my opinion, how all the Realme of Ireland was first peopled, and by what nacon. After all which the Saxons succeedinge, did wholley subdue it unto themselves. For first King Egfryde, longe kinge of Northumberland, did utterly waste and subdue, as appeareth by auncient Record, in which it is founde wrytten that he subdued all the islandes of the North, even unto Norwaye, and their kings did bringe into his subjection.

Eudoxus

This rippinge up of Auncestries, is very pleasinge unto me, and indeed savoreth of good conceiptes, and some reading withall. I see hereby howe profitable travill and experience of forrainr nacons is to him that will apply them to good purpose. Neyther indeed would I have thought, that any such antiquities could have bene avouched for the Irishe, that maketh me the more to longe to see some other of your observacons, which you have gathered out of that Country and have earst half promised to put forthe: And sure in this minglinge of nacons appeareth (as you earst well noted) a wonderfull providence and purpose of Almightie God, that stirred up the people in the farthest partes of the world to seeke out theis regions so remote from them, and by that meanes bothe to restore the decayed habitacons, and to make himselfe knowen to the Heathen. But was their, I praye you, no more generall Impeoplinge of that Iland, then first by the Scythians, which you saye were the Scotts, and afterwardes by the Affricans, besides the Gaules, Bryttons, and Saxons?

Irenius

Yes, there was an other, and that the last and the greatest, which was by the English, when the Earle Strangbowe, havinge conquered that Lande, delivered up the same into the handes of Henry the second, then Kinge, who sent over thither great store of gentlemen, and other warlyke people, amongst whom he distributed the Land, and setled such a stronge Colonie therein, as never since could, with all the subtile practices of the Irishe, be rooted out, but abyde still a mightie people, of so many as remayne Englishe of them.

Eudoxus

What is that you say, of so many as remayne English of them? Why are, not they that were once English, abydinge Englishe still?

Irenius

No, for the most parte of them are degenerated and growen almost meare Irishe, yea, and more malicious to the Englishe then the very Irishe them selves.

Eudoxus

What heare I? And is it possyble that an Englishman, brought up naturally in such sweet civilitie as England affordes, could fynd such lyking in that barberous rudenes, that he should forgett his owne nature, and foregoe his owne nacon? how may this be? or what I pray you may be the cause thereof?

Irenius

Surely, nothinge but that first evill ordinance and Institucon of that Common Wealthe. But thereof now is their no fitt place to speake, least, by the occation thereof offering matter of longe Discourse, we might be drawen from this that we have in hand, namely, the handleinge of abuses in the Customes of Ireland.

Eudoxus

In truthe, Irenius, you doe well remember the plott of your first purpose; but yet from that me seemes, you have much swarved in all this longe discourse, of the first inhabiting of Ireland: for what is that to your purpose?

Irenius

Truely very materiall; for if you marked the course of all that speech well, it was to shew by what meanes the Customes, that now are in Ireland, beinge some of them indeed very straunge and almost heathenishe, were first brought in: and that was, as I said, by those nacons from whome that contry was first peopled; for the difference of manners and customes doth followe the difference of nations and people: the which I have declared unto you to have bene 3 speciall, which seated themselves theare, to wyt, first the Scythian, then the Gaules, and lastly the Englishe. Notwythstanding that I am not ignorant, that there sundry other nacons which got footing in that Lande, of the which their yet remayne dyvers great families and seiptes, of whom I will also in theire proper places make mencon.

Eudoxus

You bringe your self, Irenius, very well into the waye againe, notwithstanding that it seemeth that you were never out of the waye. But nowe that you have passed through their antiquities, which I could have wyshed not so soone ended, begine when yee please, to declare what Customes and manners have been deryved from those nacons to the Irishe, and which of them yee fynd faulte withall.

Irenius

I will then begin to count their customes in the same order that I counted their nacons: and first with the Scythian or Scottish manners. Of the which there is one use amongst them, to keepe their Cattell, and to live them selves the most part of the yeare in Bollies, pasturinge upon the mountaines and wast wyld places; and removing still to freshe land, as they have depastured the former dayes. The which appeareth plaine to be the manner of the Scythians, as you may reede in Olaus Magnus, and Jo. Boemus, and yet is used amongst all the Tartarians and the people about the Caspian Sea, which are naturally Scythians, to live in heardes as they call them, beinge the very same that the Irishe Bollies are, dryving their cattell continually with them, and feeding onely on their whyt meates.

Eudoxus

What fault can you fynd with this custome? For thoughe it be an olde Scythian use, yet it is behooffful in this Country of Irelande, where their are great mountaines, and wast desertes full of grasse, that the same should be eaten downe, and nourishe many thousandes of cattell for the good of the whole Realme, which cannot mithinke be any other waye, then by keepinge those Bollies as there you have shewed.

Irenius

But by this custome of Bolling there grewe in the meane tyme many great enormities unto that Common waylth. For first, if there be any outlawes, or loose people, as they are never without some, which live upon the stelthes and spoyles, they are evermore sucered and fynd Releef onely in those Bollies, beinge upon the wast places, where eles they should be dryven shortly to sterve, or to come downe to the townes to seeke releef, where, by one meanes or another, they would soone be caught. Besydes, such stelthes of cattell they bringe comonly to those Bollies, where they are receaved readily, and the theif harbored from daunger of Lawe, or such officers as might light upon him. Moreover, the people that live thus in theis Bollies grow thereby more barborous, and live more licentiously then they would in townes, using what meanes they lyst, and practyzing what mischeefes and villainies they will, eyther against the government theire, generally by their combinacons, or against pryvate men, whom they maligne, by stealinge their goodes, or murtheringe [them]. For theare they thinke them selves half exempted from Lawe and obedience, and havinge once tasted freedome, doe, lyke a steare that hath bene longe out of his yooke, grudge and repyne ever after to come under rule againe.

Eudoxus

By your speech, Irein. I perceive more evill come by these bollies, then good by their grasinge; and therefore it may well be reformed: but that must be in his due course: doe you proceede to the next.

Irenius

They have another custome from the Scythians, that is the wearing of manteles and longe glebbes, which is a thicke curled bushe of heare, hanginge downe over their eyes, and monstrously disguysinge them, which are both very badd and hurtfull.

Eudoxus

Doe you thinke that the mantle cometh from the Scythians I would surely thinke otherwyse, for by that which I have redd, it appeareth that most nacons in the world auntiently used the mantle. For the Jewes used it, as you may reed of Elias mantle, of {⬌}. The Caldees also used it, as you may reed in Diodorus. The Egyptians lykewyes used it, as yee may reed in Herodotus, and may be gathered by the discription or Berenice, in the greek Commentaries upon Callimacus. The Greekes also used it aunciently, as appeareth by Venus mantle lyned with starres, though afterwards they chaunged the forme thereof into their clookes, called Pallia, as some of the Irishe also use. And the auncient Latines and Romains used it, as yee may reede in Virgill, who was a very great Antiquarie, that Evander, when Æneas came to him at his feast, did intertaine and feast him on the ground, and lying on manteles. Insomuch that he useth the very word mantile for a mantle:—
“Mantilia humi sternunt.” So that it seemeth that the mantle was a generall habite to most nacons, and not proper to the Scythians onely, as yee suppose.

Irenius

I cannot deny but aunciently it was common to most, and yet sithence disused and laid away. But in this latter age of the world, since the decay of the Romaine empyre, it was renued and brought in againe by those Northerne nacons when, breakinge out of their could caves and frosen habitacons into the sweet soyle of Europe, they brought with them their usuall weedes, fitt to sheild their could, and that continuall frost, to which they had bene at home inured: the which yet they lefte not of, by reason that they were in perpetuall warres with the nacons where they had invaded. But still removing from place to place, carryed always with them that weede, as their howse, their Bedde, and their garment. And, cominge lastly into Irelande, they found there more special use therof, by reason of the rawe could clymate, from whence it is nowe growen into that generall use in which that people nowe have it. Afterward the Affricans succeedinge, fyndinge the lyke necessitie of that garment, continued the lyke use thereof.

Eudoxus

Since then the necessitie thereof is so comodious, as ye alegde, that it is insteed of howsinge, Bedding and Clothinge, what reason have you then to wishe so necessary a thinge cast of?

Irenius

Because the commoditie dothe not countervayle against the discomoditie, for the inconveniences that thereby doe aryse are much more many: for it is a fitt howse for an outlawe, a meet Bedd for a Rebell, and apte Cloke for a theef. First the outlawe being for his many crymes and villainies banished from the townes and howses of honest men, and wandring in wast places, far from danger of Lawe, maketh his mantle his howse, and under it covereth himself from the wrathe of heaven, from the offence of the earth, and from the sight of men. When it raineth it is his penthowse, when it bloweth it is his tente; when it freezeth it is his tabernacle. In Sommer he can weare it loose, in winter he can lappe it close; at all tymes he can use it; never heavie, never combersome. Lykewaise for a Rebell it is as serviceable; for in his warre that he maketh, if at least it deserve the name of warre, when he still flyeth from his foe, and lurketh in the thicke woods and straigt passages, wayting for advantages, it is his Bedd, yea, and almost all his houshold stuffd. For the wood is his howse against all wethers, and his mantle is his cave to sleepe in. Therein he wrappeth himself rounde, and ensconceth himself strongly against the gnattess, which in the Country doe more anoy the naked rebelles, whylst they keepe the woodes, and doe more sharply wound them, then all their enemyes swordes or speares, which can seldome come nigh them; yea, and often tymes their mantle serveth them, when they are nighe driven, being wrapped about their lefte arme insteed of a Target, for it is hard to cut thorough it with a swoord. Besydes it is light to beare, light to throw away, and, being, as they then commonly naked, it is to them all in all. Lastly, for a theef it is so handsome, as it may seeme it was first invented for him; for under yt he can clenly convey any fytt pillage that cometh handsomely in his way, and when he goeth abroad in the night in free-booting, it is his best and surest frend; for lyinge, as they often doe, two or three nights together abroad, to watch for ther booty, with that they can prettyly shroud them selves under a bush or a backe syde, tyll they may conveniently doe their errande: and when all is done, he can in his mantle passe through any towne or Company, being close hooded over his head, as he useth, from knowledg of any to whome he is indaungered. Besydes all this, he, or any man eles that is dysposed to any mischeef or villainie, may under his mantle goe privyly armed without suspicon of any: carry his headpeece, his skene, or pistole if he please, to be alwaies in a readines. Thus necessarye and fytting is a mantle for a Badd man. And surely for a badd huswyfe it is no lesse convenient, for some of them that be wandring women, called of them Mona shut, it is half a Wardrobe, for in Somer ye shall fynd her arayed commonly but in her smocke and mantle; to be more ready for the light services: in Wynter, and in her travill, it is her cloake and safeguard for her lewde exercise. And when she hathe fylled her vessill, under it she can hyde bothe her burden, and her blame; yea, and when her bastard is borne it serves insteed of all her swadling cloutes. And as for all other good women which love to doe but lyttle woorke, howe handsome it is to lie in and sleepe, or to louse themselves in the sunne shine, they that have bene but a whyle in Ireland, can well wytnesse. Sure I am that you will think it very unfitt for good huswyves, to stirre in, or to busy her self about her huswyfry in such sorte as they should. Theis be some of the abuses for which I would thinke it meete to forbidd all mantles.

Eudoxus

O evill minded man, that having reckned up so many uses of mantles, will ye yet wishe it to be abandoned? Sure I thinke Diogenes dishe did never serve his master more turnes, notwithstanding he made [it] his dishe, his cupp, his measure, his waterpott, then a mantle doth an Irishe man. But I see they be all to bad intentes, and therefore I will joynn with you in abolishinge it. But what blame lay you to the glybb? take heed, I pray you, that you be not too busie therewith for feare of your owne blame, seeing our Englishemen take it up in such a generall fashion to weare ther haire so immesurably longe, that some of them exceed the longest Irishe glybbes.

Irenius

I feare not the blame of any undeserved myslyke; but for the Irish glybbes, I say that besyde ther falstye, bruitishnes and fythines which is not to be named; they are [as] fit maskes as a mantle is for a theife. For whensoever he has runne him selfe into that perill of lawe that he will not be knowen, he eyther cutteth of his glibb quite, by which he becometh nothing lyke himself, or pullethe it so lowe downe over his eyes, that it is very hard to discerne his thevish countenaunce. And therefore fit to be trussed up with the mantle.

Eudoxus

Truly theis three Scythian abuses, I hould fitt to be taken away with sharpe pennalties; and sure I wonder howe they have bene kept thus longe, notwithstandinge so many good provicons and orders as have bene devysed for that people.

Irenius

The cause thereof shall appeare to you hereafter. But let us nowe goe forward with our Scythian Customes. Of the next that I have to treat of, is the manner of raysinge their Crye in their conflictes, and at other troblesome tymes of uprore: the which is very naturall Scythian, as we may reed in Diodorus Siculus, and Herodotus, discrybing the manner of the Scythians and Parthians comminge to geve the charge at their battelles: at the which it is said, they come running with a terrible yell and hubbubbe as if heaven and yearth would have gone together, which is the very Image of the Irish hubbub, which ther kerne use at their first incounter. Besydes, the same Herodotus wryteth, that they used in their battelles to call upon the names of their Captaines or generalls, and sometymes upon their greatest kinge deceased, as in that battell of Tomyris against Cyrus: which custome to this day manifestly appeareth emongst the Irishe. For at their joyning of battell, they lykewyes call upon their captaines name, or the name of his auncestors. As the under Oneale cry Landergabo, that is, the bloody hand, which is Oneale's badge: they under O'Brien call [Laun-laider], which is [the strong hand]. And to their ensample, the old Englishe also which there remayneth, have gotten up their cryes Scythian like, as Cromabo, and Bulerabo. And herein also lieth open an other very manifest proof that the Irish are Scythes or Scottes, for in all their incounters they use one very comon woord, crying Ferragh, ferrogh, which is a Scottish word, to wyt, the name of one of their first kinges of Scottland, called Fergus (or Ferragus), which fought against the Pictes, as you may reed in Buckanan de rebus Scoticis; but as others wryt, it was longe before, that the name of their cheef Captayn, under whome they fought against the Affricans, the which was then so fortunate unto them, that ever sithence they have used to call upon his name in their battells.

Eudoxus

Beleeve me, Irenius, this observacon of yours is very good and delightfull; far beyond the blynd conceipt of some, whome I remember have upon the same woord Ferragh, made a very blunt conjecture, as namely Mr. Stanihurst, who though he be the same country man born, that should search more nearly into the secreats of theis things, yet hath strayed from the truthe all the heavens wyde (as they saye,) for he therevpon groundethe a very grosse imagination, that the Irishe should discend from the Egiptianes which came into that Iland, first under the leadinge of Scota the daughter of Pharaoh, whereupon they use (saith he) in all ther battailes to call upon Pharaoh, crying Ferragh, Ferragh. Surely he shot wyde on the Bowe hand, and very farre from the marke. For I would first knowe of him what auncient ground of Authoritie he hath for such a sencelesse fable, and if he have any of the rude Irishe bookes, as it may be he hath, yet me seemes a man of his learning should not so lightly have bene carryed away with old wyves tales from approvance of his owne Reason; for whether Scota be lyke an Egiptian woord or smacke of any learning or judgment, let the learned judge. But his Scota rather comes upon the Greeke Scoto, that is, darknes, which has not let him see the light of the truthe.

Irenius

You knowe not, Eudoxus, howe well Mr. Stanihurst could see in the darke; perhappes he hath owles or cattes eyes; but well I woot he seeth not well the very light in matters of more wayght. But as for Ferragh I have tould you my conjecture onely, and yet thus much I have more to prove a likelyhood, that there be yet at this day in Ireland, many Irish men, cheifly in the Northeren partes, called by the name of Ferragh. But let that nowe be; this onely for this place suffyceth, that it is a word comonly used in ther hubbubbs, the which, with all the rest, is to be abolished, for that it discovereth an affection of Irishe captenry, which in this platforme I endevour specially to beat downe. There be other soarts of cryes, all so used among the Irishe, which favour greatly of the Scythian barbarisme, as their lamentacons at their burialles, with dispairefull outcryes, and imoderate waylinges, the which Mr. Stanihurst might also have used for an argument to prove them Egiptians, for so in Scripture it is mentioned, that the Egyptians lamented for the deathe of Joseph. Others thinke this custom to come from the Spaniardes, for that they do imesurably bewayle likewise their dead. But the same is not propper Spanishe, but altogether heathenishe, brought in first thither either by the Scythians, or the Moores, which weare Affricans but longe possessed that Country. For it is the manner of all Paganes and infidelles to be intemperate in ther waylinges of their dead, for that they had no faythe nor hope of salvacon. And this ill Custome also is specially noated by Diodorus Siculus, to have been in the Scythians, and is yet among the Northeren Scottes at this day, as you may reade in their chronicles.

Eudoxus

This is an evill Custome also, but yet doth not much concerne Civill Reformacon, as abuse in Religion.

Irenius

I did not rehearse it as one of the abuses which I thought most worthie of Reformation; but having made mencon of Irishe cryes I thought this manner of Cryinge and howlinge not impertinent to be noted as uncyvill and Scythians lyke: for by theis old customes, and other lyke conjecturall circumstances, the descentes of nacons can onely be proved, where other monuments of writinge are not Remayninge.

Eudoxus

Then, I pray you, whensoever in your discourse you meet with them by the way, doe not shune, but bouldly touch them; for besydes their great pleasure and delight for their antiquitie, they bringe also great profitt and helpe unto civilitie.

Irenius

Then sithence you will have it soe I will heare take occation, since I lately spake of their manner of Cryes in joyninge of Battaile, to speake somewhat also of the manner of their Armes, and Array in battayle, with other Customes perhappes woorth the notinge. And first of their Armes and Weapons, amongst which their broad swordes are proper Scythian, for such the Scythes used commonly, as you may reed in Olaus Magnus. And the same also the old Scottes used, as yee may reed in Buchanan, and in [Solinus], where the pictures of them are in the same forme expressed. Also theire short bowes, and lytle quivers with shorte Bearded arrowes, are very Scythian, as ye may reede in the sameOlaus. And the same soart, bothe of bowes, quivers, and arrowes, are at this day to be seene commonly among the Irishe, whose Scottishe bowes are not past 3 quarters of a yard longe, with a stringe of wrethed hempe slackly bente, and whose arrowes are not above half an elline longe, tipped with steele heades, made lyke common broad arrowes heades, but many more sharpe and slender, that they enter into an armed man or horse most cruelly, notwithstanding that they are shott forth weakly. Moreover, their longe broad sheeldes, made but with wicker roddes, which are comonly used amongst the said Northeren Irishe, but specially of the Scottes, and brought from the Scythians, as ye may reede in Olaus Magnus, Solinus, and others; likewyes their goinge to battaile without armor on their bodies or heads, but trusting onelie to the thickness of their glybbes, the which they say will somytimes beare of a good stroke, is meare salvage and Scythian, as you may see in the said Images of the old Scythes or Scottes, set forth by Hodianus and others. Besides, ther confused kinde of march in heapes, without any order or aray, ther clashing of swordes together, their fierce runninge upon ther enemyes, and their manner of fight, resembleth altogether that which is redd in all histories to have bene used of the Scythians. By which it may almost infallably be gathered, together with other sircumstances, that the Irishe are very Scottes or Scythes oridgionall, though since intermingled with many other nacons reparinge and joyning unto them. And to these, I may also add an other very stronge conjecture, which commeth to my mynde, that I have often observed there amongst them; that is, certaine relidgious Ceremonies, which are very superstitious, yet used amongst them, the which are also wrytten by sundry Authores, to have bene observed among the Scythians, by which it may very vehemently be presumed that the nations were aunciently all one. For Plutarch, as I remember, in his Treatise of Homere, indeavoringe to search out the truth, what countryman Homere was, proveth it most strongly, as he thinketh, that he was an Italian borne, for that in distributing of a sacrifice of the Greekes, he omitted the {⬌} called {⬌} [loyne,] the which all the other Grecians, save the Italians, do use to burne in their sacrifice: also for that he maketh the entralles to be rosted on fyve spites, the which was the proper maner of the Ætolians, who only, of all the nations and Cuntryes of Gretia, used to sacrifice in that sort, whereas all the rest of the Greekes used to rost them upon three spites, by which he inferreth, necessarily, that Homere was an Ætolian. And by the same reason may I as reaonably conclude, that the Irish ar descended from the Scythians, for that they use even to this day, some of the same Ceremonyes which the Scythians aunciently used. As for example, yee may reade in [Lucian] in that sweet dialogue which is intituled Toxaris or of friendshipp, that the comon oath of the Scythians, was by the sword, and by the fyer, for that they accounted these two specyall devyne powers, which should worke vengance on perjurors. So doe the Irish at this day, when they goe to any battayle, say certayne prayers or charmes to ther swordes, making a crosse therewith upon the earth, and thrusting the poyntes of ther blades into the grownd; thinking therby to have the better successe in fight. Alsoe they use to swere comonly by their swordes. Likewise at the kindling of Candles, they say certayne prayers; and use some other superstitius rightes, which showe that they honor the fyer and the light; for all those Northerne nations, having bene used to be anoyed with much could and darknesse, are wont therfore to have the fyer and the sonne in great veneracon: like as otherwise the Moores and Egiptians, which are much offended and greved with much extreame heate of the sunne, doe everie morning, when the sunne rises, fall to cursing and banning of him as ther plague and chiefe scourge. [Also the Scythians used when] they would bind any solemne vow or combynacon, to drawe a bowle of blood, together vowing therby to spend their last blood in that quarrel, as you may read in Buckhanan; and some of the Northerne Irishe, lykewise: as you may also reade in the same booke, in the tale of Arsacomas, that it was the manner of the Scythians when any on[e] of them was heavily wronged, and would assemble unto him any forces of people, to joyne with him in his revenge, to sit in some publick place for certayne dayes upon an oxe hide, to which there would resorte all such persons as being disposed to take armes would enter into his armes, would take pay or ioyne with him in his quarrell. And the same you may lykewise reade to have bene the auncyent manner of the wilde Scottes, which are indeed the very naturall Irish. Moreover, the Scythians used to sweare by ther kinges hand, as Olaus showeth. And soe doe the Irish use to swere by their Lordes hand, and, to forsweare it, hould it more cryminall then to sweare by god. Also the Scythians sayd, that they were once every yere turned into wolves, and soe it is wrighten of the Irish; thoughe Master Camden in a better sence doe suppose it was a disseaze, called Licanthropia, soe named of the wolfe. And yet some of the Irish doe use to make the wolf ther gossopp. The Scythians also used to seeth the flesh in the hyde, and so do the North Irishe yet. The Scythians likewise used to boyle the bloode of the beast lyvinge, and to make meate thereof: and soe doe the Irishe still in the North. Manye such customes I could recounte unto you, as of there ould manner of marrying, of burying, of dauncing, of singing, of feastinge, of cursing, though Christians have wyped out the most parte of them, by resemblance whereof yt might playnely appere to you that the nacons ar the same, but that by the reckoning of these fewe, which I have tould unto you, I finde my speech drawen out to a greater lenth than I supposed. Thus much only for this time, I hope, shall suffice you, to thinke that the Irishe are aunciently deduced from the Scythians.

Eudoxus

Surely, Irenius, I have in theese fewe wordes heard that from you which I would have thought had bene impossible to have bene spoken of tymes soe remote, and customes so auncyent: with delight whereof I was as it were all that while entranced, and carryed far from myself, as that I am now right sorrye that yee ended soe soone. But I marvayle much howe it commeth to passe, that in so long continuance of time, and many ages come betwene, yett any jott of those ould rightes and superstitious customes should remayne amongest them.

Irenius

It is noe cause of wounder at all, for it is the manner of all barbarous nacons to be very superstitious, and diligent observors of old customes and antiquities, which they receyve by contynuall tradicon from ther parentes, by recording of ther bardes and cronicle[s], in their songes, and by dayly use and ensample of ther elders.

Eudoxus

But have you I pray you observed any such customes among them, brought likewise from the Spanyardes or Gaules, as those from the Scythians? that may sure be very materiall unto your first purpose.

Irenius

Some perhapps I have; and whoe that will by this occasion marke and compare ther customes shall finde many more. But ther are fewer I thinke, remayning of the Gaules or Spanyardes then of the Scythians, by reason that the partes, which they then possessed lying upon the Coast of the Westerne and Southerne Sea, were sithence contynually visited with strangers and forreyne people, repayring thither for trafficke, and for fishing, which is very plentifull upon the coastes: for the trade and enterdeale of seacoste nacons one with another worketh more civility and good fashions, all sea men being naturally desirous of new fashions, then the Inland dwellers which are seldome seene of forreyners; yet some of them as I have noted, I will recounte unto you. And first I will, for the better creditt of the rest, shewe you one out of ther Statutes, amongst which it is enacted that noe man shall weare his beard but only on the upper lyp, like mustachios, shaving all the rest of his chinne. And this was the auncient manner of the Spanyardes, as yett it is of all the Mahometans, to cut all ther beardes close, save onely muschachos, which they weare longe. And the cause of this use was for that they, being bred in an hot country, found much hayre on ther faces and other partes to be noyous unto them: for which cause they did cutt yt most away, like as contraryly all other ncaons, brought upp in could countryes doe use to nourish ther hare, to keep them the warmer, which was the cause that the Scythians and Scottes woare glibbes, as I shewed you, to keep ther heades warme, and long beardes to defend ther faces from could. From them also I thinke came saffron shirtes and smockes, which was devised by them in those hotte countryes, wher saffron is very common and rife, for avoyding that evill which commeth of much swetnes, and longe wearing of lynnen. Also the women amongst the ould Spanyardes had the charge of all hushould affayres, both at home and abroad, as Boemius wrighteth, though now theise Spanyardes use it quite otherwise. And soe have the Irish women the trust and care of all thinges, both at home, and in the feilde. Likewise rownd lether targettes, as the Spanyarde fashion, who used it, for the most part, paynted, which in Ireland they use alsoe, in many places, colored after ther rude fashion. Moreover ther manner of ther womens ryding on the wrong syde of the horse, I meane with ther faces toward their right syde, as the Irish use, is, as they say, ould Spanish, and as some say Africane, ffor amongst them the women (they say) use to ride acrosse: Also the deep smock sleve hanging to the grownd, which the Irish women use, (they say), was ould Spanish, and is used yet in Barbary: and yett that should seme rather to be an oulde Irish fashion; for in Armory the fashion of the Manche, which is geven in armes by many, being indeed nothing ells but a sleve, is fashioned much like to that sleve. And that Knightes in ould tymes used to weare ther mistres favor or loves sleve, upon ther armes, as appereth by that is wrighten of Sir Launcelott, that he wore the sleve of the fayre mayd of Asteroth in a tourney, whereat Quene Guenouer was much displeased.

Eudoxus

Your conceit is very good, well fitting for things soe farre from certayntye of knowledge and learning, only upon lykelyhoodes and conjectures. But have you any customes remayning from the Gaules or Bryttans?

Irenius

I have observed a few of eyther; and whoe will better search into them may find more. And first the possession of their Bardes was, as Caesar writeth, usuall amongst the Gaules; and the same was also common amongst the Brittans, and is not yett altogether left of with the Walshe, which are ther posterity. ffor all the fashions of the Brittons, as he testifieth, were much like. The longe dearts came also from the Gaules, as ye may read in the same Caesar, and in John Boemius. Likewise the said Jo. Boemius wrighteth, that the Gaules used swordes, a hanfull broad, and soe doe the Irish nowe. Also that they used long wicker sheilds in battell that should cover their whole bodyes, and soe doe the Northerne Irish. But because I have not seen such fashioned targettes in the Southerne partes, but only amongst those Northerne people, and Irish Scottes, I doe thinke that they were brought in rather by the Scythians, then by the Gaules. Alsoe the Gaules used to drincke ther enymyes blood, and to paynte themselves therewith: soe alsoe they wright, that the ould Irish were wonte, and soe have I sene some of the Irish doe, but not theire enymyes but frendes bloode. As namely at the execution of a notable traytor at Lymbricke, called Murrogh Obrien, I saw an ould woman, which was his foster mother, tooke up his heade, whilst he was quartered, and sucked up all the blood running thereout, saying, that the earth was not worthy to drincke it, and therewith also steeped her face and brest, and tare her heare, crying and shriking out most terribly.

Eudoxus

Yee have very well runne thorough such customes as the Irish have deryved from the first ould nacons which inhabited that land, namely, the Scythians, the Spanyardes, the Gaules, the Brittanes. It nowe remayneth that you now take in hand the customes of the ould English which are amonst the Irish: of which I doe not thinke that yee shall have much to find fault with any, consideringe that by the Englishe most of the ould badd Irish Customes were abolished, and more cyvill fashions brought in their steade.

Irenius

You thinke otherwise, Eudoxus then I doe; for the chiefest abuses which are nowe in that realme, are growne from the English, that are now much more lawlesse and lycencious then the very wild Irish: so that as much care as was then by them had to reforme the Irish, so much and more must nowe be used to reforme them; soe much tyme doth alter the manners of men.

Eudoxus

That semeth very strange which you say, that men should soe muche degenerate from their first natures as to grow wild.

Irenius

Soe much can libertye and ill examples doe.

Eudoxus

What liberty had the English ther, more then they had here at home? Were not the lawes planted amonge them at the first, and had they not governors to curbe and keepe them still in awe and obedience?

Irenius

They had, but it was such for the most part, as did more then good[,] for they had governors for the most part of them selves, and commonly out of the two familiyes of the Gerldines and the Butlers, both adversaryes and corivales one against the other. Who though, for the most part, they were but deputyes under some of the Kinges of Englands sonns, brethren, or other nere kinsmen, who were the Kinges leiutenantes yet they swayed soe much as they had all the rule, and the others but the tytle. Of which Butlers and Geraldines, albeit I must confesse they were very braue worthy men, as also of other the peres of that realme, made Lorde Deputyes, and lord Justices and signories at sundry times, yet thorough greatnes of their late conquests and seignories they grewe insolent, and evill bente both that regall authority, and also ther private powers, one against another, to the utter subversion of them selves and strenthining of the Irish againe. This you may reade playnly discovered by a letter written from the Citizens of Corke out of Ireland, to the earle of Shressburye then in England, and remayning yet upon recorde, both in the Tower of London, and alsoe amongst the Cronicles of Ireland. Wherein it is by them complained, that the English Lords and Gentlemen, who then had great possessions in Ireland, began thorough pride and insolencye, to make private warrs one against another, and, when the other parte was weake, they would wage and drawe in the Irish to take ther part, by which meanes they both greatly encoraged and enabled the Irish, which till that tyme had bene shut upp within the mountaynes of Slewlougher, and weakened and disabled them selves, in soe much that there revenews were wonderfully impayred, and some of them, which are ther reckoned to have bene able to have spent xij or xiij hundred pounds per annum, of owld rent, that I may say noe more, besides ther comodetyes of Creekes and havens, were now scarce able to dispend the third part. From which disorder, and thorough ther huge calamityes which have come vpon them therby, they are now almost growne to be almost as lewde as the Irish: I meane of such English as were planted towardes the West; for the English pale hath preserved it selfe, thorough nearenes of the state, in reasonable civilitye, but rest which dwell aboue in Connaght and Munster, which is the sweetest soyle of Ireland, and some in Leinster and Ulster, ar degenerate and growen to be as very Patchcockes as the wild Irishe, yea, some of them haue quite shaken of ther English names, and put on Irishe that they might be altogether Irishe.

Eudoxus

Is it possible that any should soe farr growe out of frame that they should in soe short space, quite forgett ther Country and ther owne names? that is a most dangerous LETHARGIE, much worse then that of MESSILA CARVINUS, who, being a most learned man, thorough sicknes forgot his owne name. But can you counte us any of this kynde?

Irenius

I cannot but by the reporte of the Irishe themselves, who report, that the Macmaghons, in the North, were auncyently English; to witt, descended from the Fitz Ursulas, which was a noble family in England, and that the same appered by the significacon of their Irish names. Lykewise that the Macswinies, now in Ulster, were aunciently of the Veres of England, but that they themselves, for hatred of the English, soe disguised ther names.

Eudoxus

Could they ever conceyve any such devilish dislike of ther owne naturall Country, as that they would be ashamed of ther name, and bite of the dugge from which they sucked lyfe?

Irenius

I wote well ther should be none: but prowd heartes doe oftentymes, like wanton coultes, kicke at ther mothers, as we reade Alcibiades and Themistocles did, who, being banished out of Athens, fledd unto the Kinge of Asia, and ther stirred him upp to warr against ther Country, in which warrs they them selves wer cheiftaynes. Soe that, they sayd, did theise Macswynes and Macmahons, or rather Veres or Fitz Ursulaies, for private despite, turne themselves against England. For at suche tyme as Robert Vere, Earl of Oxford, was in the Barons warrs against King Richard the seconde, thorough the mallice of the Peeres, banished the realme and proscribed, he with his kynsman Fitz Ursula fledd into Ireland, wher being prosecuted, and afterwardes in England put to death, his kinsmen there remayning behinde in Ireland, rebelled, and conspiring with the Irishe, did quite cast of ther Englishe names and alleigaunce; since which tyme they have so remained, and have euer sithence bene counted meere Irish. The verye like is also euer soe reported of Macswynes, Mackmahons and Mackshehaies of Mounster, howe they lykewise were auncyently English, and ould followers to the Earle of Desmond, untill the raigne of King Edward the fourth: at which tyme the Earle of Desmonde that then was, called Thomas, being thorough false subbornacon, as they say, of the Queene for some offence, by her against him conceyved, brought to his death at Tredagh most unjustly, notwithstanding that he was a very good and sounde subjecte to the kinge. Therupon all his kinsemen of the Geraldines, which then was a mighty family in Mounster, in reveng of that huge wronge, rose into armes against the kinge, and utterly renownced and forsware all obedience to the Crowne of England; to whom the sayd Mackswynes, Mackshehayes, and Mackmahons, ther servantes and followers, did the like, and have euer sithence so contynued. And with them, they say, all the people of Mounster went, and many other of them, which were mere English, thenceforth ioyned with the Irish against the King, and termed themselves very Irish, taking on them Irishe habites and customes, which would never since be cleane wyped awaye, but the Contagion thereof hath remayned still amongst ther posterityes. Of which sorte, they say, be most of the surnames which end in an, as Shinian, Mangan, &c. the which nowe account them selves naturall Irishe. Other great howses ther bee of the ould Englishe in Ireland, which thorough lycentious conversinge with the Irish, or marrying, or fostering with them, or lacke of meete nurture, or other such unhappy occasions, have degendred from ther auncyent dignityes, and are nowe growen as Irish as Ohanlans breach, (as the proverbe ther is,) of which sorte ther are two most pittifull exsamples above the rest: to witt the Lord Breningham, who being the most auncyent Barron in England, is nowe waxen the most salvage Irish, naming himselfe Irish like Noccorish: and the other the great Mortimer, who forgetting howe great he was once in England, or English at all, is now become the most barbarous of them all, and is now called Macnemarra; and [not] much better then he is the ould Lord Courrie, who having lewdly wasted all the land and signoryes that he had and aliened them unto the Irishe, is himselfe also now growne quite Irishe.

Eudoxus

In truth this which you tell is a most shamfull hearing, and to be reformed with most sharpe sensures in soe greate personages, to the terrour of the meaner: for wher the lords and cheife men wax so barbarous and bastard like, what shalbe hoped of the pesantes, and baser people? And hereby sure you have made a fayre waye unto your selfe to lay open the abuses of ther vile customes, which yee have now next to declare, the which, noe doubte, but are very bad and barbarous, being borowed from the Irishe, as there apparell, ther language, their riding, and many other the lyke.

Irenius

Yee cannot but thinke them sure to be very brute and uncyvill; for were they at the best that they weare of ould, when they were brought in, they should in soe long an alteracon of tyme seeme very strang and uncouth. For it is to be thought, that the use of all Englande, was in the raigne of Henry the seconde, when Ireland was first planted with Englishe, very rude and barberous, soe as yf the same should be nowe used in England by any, it would seme worthy of sharpe correction, and of newe lawes for reformacon; but it is but even the other day since England grewe cyvill: therfore in countyng the evill customes of the Englishe ther, I will [not] have regard whether the beginninge thereof were Englishe or Irish, but will have respect only to the inconvenyence thereof. And first I have to find faulte with the abuse of language, that is, for the speaking of Irishe amongst the English, which as it is unnaturall that any people should love another language more then ther owne, soe it is very inconvenient, and the cause of many other evills.

Eudoxus

It semeth strang to me that the English should take more delight to speake that language more then ther owne, whereas they should (me thinkes) rather take scorne to acquiante ther tonges therto: for it hath alwayes bene the use of the conqueror to dispose the language of the conquered, and to force him by all meanes to learne his. So did the Romains alwayes use, insomuch that ther is almost not a nacon in the world, but is sprinkled with their language. It were good therfore (me thinkes) to search out the originall course of this evill; for, the same beinge dicovered, a redresse thereof wilbe the more easily provided: for I thinke it were strange, that the English being soe many, and the Irish soe fewe, as they then were left, the fewer should drawe the more unto their use.

Irenius

I suppose that the chief cause of bringing in the Irish language, amongst them, was specially ther fostering, and marrijng with the Irish, which are twoe most dangerous infections; for first the child that sucketh the milke of the nurse, must of necessitie learne his first speach of her, the which being the first that is enured to his tongue, is after most plesing unto him, insomuch as though he afterwardes be taught English, yet the smacke of the first will alwayes abide with him; and not only of the speach, but of the manners and condicons. For besydes the yonge children bee like apes, which affect and Imitate what they have seene done before them, specially by their nourses whom they love soe well: moreover they drawe into themselves, together with their sucke, even the nature and disposition of ther norses: for the mind followeth much the temperature of the body; and alsoe the wordes are the image of the minde, soe as, the[y] proceeding from the minde, the mynd must be needes affected with the wordes. Soe that the speach being Irish, the hart must needes be Irishe; for out of the aboundance of the hart, the tonge speaketh. The next is the marryinge with the Irish, which how dangerous a thinge it is in all comonwelths appeareth to every symplest sence; and thoughe some greate ones have used such matches with ther vassales, and have of them neverthelesse raysed worthie yssue, as Telamon did with Tecmissa, Alexander the great with Roxane, and Julius Cesar with Cleopatre, yet the example is so perillous, as it is not to be ventured: for in stead of those fewe good, I could counte unto them infinite many evell. And indeed how can such matching but bring forth an evill race, seing that comonly the child taketh most of his nature of the mother, besydes speach, mannors, and inclynation, which are for the most part agreable to the condicons of ther mothers? for by them they are first framed and fashioned soe as [if] they receyve any thing from, they will hardly ever after forgoe. Therfore are theise twoe evill customes of fostering and maryinge with the Irishe most carefully to be restrayned; for of them twoe, the third, that is the evill custome of language which I spake of, cheifly proceedeth.

Eudoxus

But are ther not lawes alredye appointed, for avoyding of this evill?

Irenius

Yes, I thinke there be; but as good never a whit as never the better. For what doe statutes avayle without penaltyes, or lawes without charge of execution? for soe ther is another like lawe enackted against wearing of Irish apparell, but never the more it is observed by any, or executed by them that have the charge: for they in ther private discresions thinke it not fitt to be forced upon the pore wretches of that Countrye, which are not worth the price of English apparell, nor expediente to be practysed against the better sorte, by reason that the Country (say they) doe yeeld noe better: and were ther better to be had, yet theise were fitter to be used, as namely, the mantle in travelling, because ther be noe Innes wher meate or beding might be had, soe that his mantle serves him then for a bed: the lether quilted Jacke in jorninge and in Campinge, for that it is fittest to be under his shirte of maile, for any occasion of suddayne service, as ther happen many, and to cover his thine bretch on horsbacke. the great lynnen rowle which the women weare, to keepe ther heades warme after cutting their hayre, which they use in any sicknesse. Besydes ther thicke foulded lynnen shirtes, ther longe sleved smocke, ther halfe-sleved coates, ther silken fillottes, and all the rest, they will devise some colour for, eyther of necessity, or of antiquity, or of comlynesse.

Eudoxus

But what couler soever they alledge, me thinke it is not expedient, that the execution of a lawe once ordayned should be left to the discression of the officer, but that without partialitie or regard, yt should be fulfilled aswell on Englishe as Irishe.

Irenius

But they thincke this pricisenes in reformacon of apparell not to be soe materiall, or greatly pertinent.

Eudoxus

Yes surely but yt is; for mens apparell is comonly made accordinge to theire condicons, and theire condicons are oftentymes goverened by theire garmentes: for the person that is gowned is by his gowne put in minde of gravitie, and also restrayned from lightnes by the very aptnes of his weede. Therefore yt is wrytten by Aristotle, then when Cyrus had overcome the Lydeans that were a warlike nacon, [and] devised to bringe them to a more peacable life, he chaunged theire apparrell and musicke, and in steade of theire shorte warlike coate, clothed them in long garmentes like wyves, and in steade of theire warlike musicke, appointed to them certen lascyvious layes, and loos gigges, by which in shorte space theire mindes were [so] mollified and abated, that they forgot theire former feircenes, and became most tender and effeminate: whereby it appeareth, that there is not a little in the garment to the fashioninge of the mynde and condicons. But bee [all] these, which you have described, the fashions of the Irishe weedes?

Irenius

Noe: all these which I have rehearsed to you, bee not Irish garmentes, but Englishe; for the quilted leather Jacke is oulde Englishe; for yt was the proper weede of the horseman, as you may reade in Chaucer, where he describeth Sir Thopas apparrell and armor, when he went to fighte against the gyant, which shecklaton, is that kinde of gilden leather with which they use to Imbroder their Irishe Jackes. And there likewise by all that discripcon yee may see the very fashion and manner of the Irishe horseman most lively sett out, in his longe hose, his shoes of costlie cordwaine, his hacqueton, and his haberjon, with all the rest thereunto belonginge.

Eudoxus

I surely thought that that manner had bene kindly Irishe, for yt is farre differinge from that we have nowe; as also all the furniture of his horse, his stronge brasse bytt, his sliding raynes, his shanke pillyon without stirruppes, his manner of mountinge, his fashion of rydinge, his charginge of speare aloft above hande, [and] the forme of his speare.

Irenius

Noe sure; they bee native Englishe, and brought in by the Englishe men first into Ireland: nether is the same yet accounted an uncomelie manner of rydinge; for I have hearde some greate warryors say, that, in all these services which they had seene abroade in forraygne countreyes, they never sawe a more comelie horseman then the Irish man, nor that cometh on more bravely in the charge; nether is his manner of mountinge unsemely; though he lacke stirrops, but more readie then with styroppes; for in his gettinge up, his horse is still goinge, whereby he gayneth way. And therefore the styrrop was called soe in scorne, as yt were a stayre to gett up, beinge derived out of the oulde Englishe worde sty, which is, to mounte.

Eudoxus

It seemeth then that you finde no faulte with this manner of rydinge; whie then woulde you have the gilded jacke layed awaye?

Irenius

I would not have that laied away, but the abuse thereof to bee put awaye; for beinge used to the ende that it was framed, that is, to be worne in warre under a shirte of male, yt is allowable, as also the shirt of mayle, and all his other furniture: but to be worne daylie att home, as in Townes and civill places, yt is a rude habitt and most uncomelie, seeminge like a players painted coote.

Eudoxus

But yt is worne, they saye, likewise of Irishe footmen; howe doe you allowe of that? for I should thinke yt were unseemelye.

Irenius

Noe, not as yt is used in warre, for yt is then worne likewise of footmen under their shirts of mayle, the which footmen they call Galloglasses; the which name doth discover him to be allso auncyent Englishe, for Gallogla signifies an Englishe servitor or yeoman. And he being so armed, in a long shirte of mayle downe to the calfe of his legge, with a long broade axe in his hande, was then pedes gravis armaturae, and was insteade of the armed footeman that nowe weareth a Corselett, before the corslett were used, or allmost invented.

Eudoxus

Then him belike you allowe in your streighte reformacon of oulde customes.

Irenius

Both him and the kearne allso (whome only I toke to bee the proper Irishe souldyer) cann I allowe, soe that they use that habite and cutome of theires in the warres onely, when they are ledd forth to the service of their Prince, and not usuall[y] at home, and in civill places, and besides doe laye aside the evill wylde uses which the galloglasses and kerne doe use in theire evill trade of lief.

Eudoxus

What be those?

Irenius

Marry, these be the most loathlie and barbarous condicons of any people, I thincke, under heaven; for, from the tyme that they enter into that coorse, they doe use all the beastlie behavior that may bee to oppresse all men: they spoile aswell the subjecte as the enemye; they steale, they are cruell and bloodye, full of revenge, and delighte in deadly execucon, licensious, swearers, and blasphemers, comon ravishers of weomen, and murtherers of children.

Eudoxus

Those bee most villanous condicons; I mervayle then that ever they bee used or imployed, or allmost suffered to lyve: what good cann there bee then in them?

Irenius

Yet sure they are very valiaunt, and hardye, for the most parte greate endurors of colde, labor, hunger, and all hardnes, very actyve and stronge of hande, verye swyfte of foote, very vigillant and circumspecte in their enterprises, very present in perills, very greate scorners of death.

Eudoxus

Truelie, by this that yee saye, yt seemes the Irishman is a very brave souldier.

Irenius

Yea truelie, eaven in that rude kinde of service hee beareth himselfe very couragiouslie. But where he cometh to experience of service abroade, or is putt to a peece, or a pyke, he maketh as worthie a souldier as any nacon he meeteth with. But lett us I pray you turne againe to our discourse of evill customes amongest the Irishe.

Eudoxus

Me seemes, all this which you speake of, concerneth the Customes amongest the Irishe very materially; for theire uses in warre are of noe smale importance to be considered, aswell to reforme those which are evill, as to confirme and contynew those which are good. But followe you your owne coorse, and shewe what other theire Customes you have to dislike of.

Irenius

There is amongest the Irishe, a certen kinde of people called the bardes, which are to them insteade of Poetts, whose profession is to sett forth the prayses and disprayese of men in theire Poems or rymes; the which are had in soe high regarde and estimacon amongest them, that none dare displease them for feare to runne into reproach through theire offence, and to be made infamous in the mouthes of all men. For theire verses are taken up with a generall applause, and usuallye sonnge att all feaste meetings, by certen other persons whose proper function that is, which also receave for this same, great rewardes, and reputacon besides.

Eudoxus

Doe you blame this in them, which I would otherwise have thought to have ben worthie of good accompte, and rather to have ben mayntayned and augmented amongest them, then to have ben disliked? for I have reade that in all ages Poetts have bene had in specyall reputacon, and that me seemes not without greate cause; for besides theire sweete invencons, and most wyttie layes, they are alwayes used to sett forth the praises of the good and vertuous, and to beate downe and disgrace the bad and vicyous. Soe that many brave younge mindes have oftentymes, through the hearinge the prayses and famous Eulogies of worthie men songe and reported unto them, benn stirred up to affecte the like commendacons, and soe to stryve unto the like desertes. Soe they say that the Lacedemonians were more enclyned to desire of honor with the excellent verses of the Poett Tyrteus, then with all the exhortacons of theire Captaines, or authorities of theire rulers and Magistrates.

Irenius

It is most true that such Poettes, as in theire wrytinge doe labor to better the Manners of men, and through the sweete bayte of theire nombers, to steale into the younge spirittes a desire of honor and vertue, are worthy to be had in greate respecte. But these Irish bardes are for the most parte of another mynde, and soe far from instructinge younge men in Morrall discipline, that they themselves doe more deserve to be sharplie decyplined; for they seldome use to chuse unto themselves the doinges of good men, for the ornamentes of theire poems, but whomesoever they finde to bee most lycentious of lief, most bolde and lawles in his doinges, most daungerous and desperate in all partes of disobedience and rebellious disposicon, him they sett up and glorifie in their rymes, him they prayse to the people, and to younge men make an example to followe.

Eudoxus

I mervayle what kinde of speaches they cann finde, or what face they cann put on, to prayse such lewde persons as lyve so lawleslie and licensiouslie upon stealthes and spoiles, as most of them doe; or howe can they thincke that any good mynde will applaude the same?

Irenius

There is none soe bad, Eudoxus, but that shall finde some to fauor his doinges; but such licentious partes as these, tendinge for the most parte to the hurte of the English, or mayntenance of theire owne lewd libertye, they themselves, beinge most desirous therto, doe most allowe. Besides these evill thinges beinge deckt and suborned with the gay attyre of goodlie wordes, may easilie deceave and carry awaye the affeccon of a younge mynde, that is not well stayed, but desirous by some bolde adventure to make profe of himselfe; for beinge (as they all bee) brought up idlelie, without awe of parents, without precepts of masters, without feare of offence, not beinge directed, nor imployed in anye coorse of lief, which may carry them to vertue, will easilie be drawen to followe such as any shall sett before them: for a younge mynde cannot but rest; yf he bee not still busied in some goodnes, he will finde himselfe such busines as shall soone busye all about him. In which yf he shall finde any to prayse him, and to geve hym encorragement, as those Bardes and rymers doe for little rewarde, or a share of a stollen cowe, then waxeth he moste insolent and halfe mad with the love of himselfe, and his owne lewde deedes. And as for wordes to sett forth such lewdenes, yt is not hard for them to geve a goodlie glose and paynted showe thereunto, borrowed even from the prayses which are proper unto vertue yt selfe. As of a most notorius theife and wicked outlawe, which had lyved all his tyme of spoiles and robberies, one of theire Bardes in his praise findes, That he was none of those idle mylkesoppes that was brought up by the fyer side, but that most of his dayes he spent in armes and valiant enterprises; that he never did eate his meate before he had wonne yt with his sworde; that he laye not slugginge all night in a cabben under his mantle, but used commonly to kepe others wakinge to defend theire lyves, and did light his Candle at the flame of their howses to leade him in the darknes; that the day was his night, and the night his daye; that he loved not to lye woinge of wenches to yealde to him, but where he came he toke by force the spoile of other mens love, and left but lamentacon to theire lovers; that his musicke was not the harpe, nor layes of love, but the Cryes of people, and clashinge of armor, and that fynally, he died not wayled of manye, but [made] many wayle when he died, that dearlye bought his death. Doe you not thinke, Eudoxus, that many of these prayses might be applied to men of best desert? yet are they all yeilded to moste notable traytors, and amongest some of the Irish not smallye accompted of. For the same, when yt was first made and soung vnto a person of high degree, they were bought as their manner is, for fortie crownes.

Eudoxus

And well worth sure. But tell me I pray you, have they any arte in their composicons? or bee they any thinge wyttye or well favored, as poems shoulde bee?

Irenius

Yea truly; I haue caused diuers of them to be translated unto me that I might understande them; and surelye they savored of sweete witt and good invencon, but skilled not of the goodly ornamentes of Poetrie: yet were they sprinckled with some prettye flowers of theire owne naturall devise, which gave good grace and comlines unto them, the which yt is greate pittye to see soe good an ornament abused, to the gracinge of wickednes and vice, which woulde with good usage serve to bewtifie and adorne vertue. This evill custome therefore needeth reformacon. And nowe next after the Irishe Kerne, me seemes the Irish Horse boyes woulde come well in order, the use of which though necessarye (as tymes nowe bee) doe enforce, yet in the reformacon of that Realme they shoulde be cutt of. For the cause whie they must bee nowe permitted is the wante of convenient innes for lodginge of travellers on horsebacke, and of Ostelers to tende theire horses by the waye. But when thinges shalbe reduced to a better passe, this needeth specially to be reformed; for out of the frye of these rakehelly horseboyes, growinge up in knavery and villany, are theire kerne contynewally supplied and mayntayned. For hauinge benn once brought up an idle horseboye, he will never after falle to labor, but is only made fitt for the halter. And these allso (the which is one fowle over-sight) are for the most parte bred up amongest Englishmen, and Souldyers, of whome learninge to shoote a peece, and beinge made acquainted with all the trades of the Englishe, they are afterwardes, when they become kerne, made more fytt to cutt theire throates. Next to this there is another much like, but much more lewde and dishonest; and that is, of theire Carrowes, which is a kinde of people that wander up and downe gentlemens howses, lyvinge only upon Cardes and dyce, the which, though they have little or nothinge of theire owne, yet will they playe for much moneye, which if they wynne, they waste most lightlie, and yf they loose, they paye as slenderlye, but make recompence with one stealth or another, whose only hurte is not, that they themselves are Idle Losselles, but that through gayminge they drawe others to like lewdnes and idlenes. And to these maye bee added another sorte of like loose fellowes, which doe passe up and downe amongest gentlemen by the name of Jesters, but are in deede notable Roges, and partakers not only of many stealthes by settinge forth other mens goodes to bee stollen, but allso pryvie to many trayterous practizes, and common Carryers of newes, with desier whereof you woulde wonder howe muche the Irishe are fedd: for they use commonly to sende up and downe to knowe news, and yf any meete another, his second worde is, What newes? In soe much that hereof is toulde a pretty jest of a Frenchman, whoe havinge bene sometyme in Ireland, where he maked theire greate enquirye for newes, and meetinge afterwardes in Fraunce an Irishman whome he knewe in Ireland, first saluted him, and afterwardes thus merelye: Sir, I praye you (quoth he) tell me of curtesie, have you hearde yet any thinge of the newes that ye so much enquired for in your Countrye?

Eudoxus

This argueth sure in them a greate desier of innovacon, and therefore these occasions which norishe the same are to be taken awaye, as namelie, these Jesters, Carrowes, Mora-shite, and all such straglers, for whom me seemes the shorte riddance of a Marshall were meeter then any ordinance or prohibicon to restrayne them. Therefore, I praye you, leave all this brablement of such loose Runnagates, and passe to some other Customes.

Irenius

There is a greate use amonge the Irishe, to make greate assemblies togeather upon a Rath or hill, there to parlie (as they saye) about matters and wronges betwene Towneship and Towneship, or one private person and another. But well I wott, that knowe, yt hath bene oftentymes approved, that in these meetinges many mischiefes have benn both practized and wrought: for to them doe commonly resorte all the scumme of loose people, where they may freelie meete and conferre of what they list, which ells theye could not doe without suspicon or knowledge of others. Besides, at these parlies I have divers tymes knowen that many Englishmen, and other good Irishe subjectes, have benn villanouslie murdered, by movinge one quarrell or another amongest them. For the Irishe never come to those Rathes but armed, whether on horsebacke or on foote, which the English nothinge suspectinge, are then commonly taken at advantagge like sheepe in the pynfolde.

Eudoxus

It may bee Irenius that abuse maye bee in these meetings. But these rounde hilles and square bawnes, which you see soe stronglie trenched and throwen upp, were (they saye) at first ordayned for the same purpose, that people mighte assemble themselves thereon; and therefore auncientlye they were called Folkmotes, that is, a place for people to meete or talke of any thinge that concerned any difference betweene parties and Towneshipes, which seemeth yet to me very requisite.

Irenius

You say very true, Eudoxus the first makinge of these high hilles was at first indeede to very good purpose for people to meete; but though the tymes when they were first made, might well serve to good occasions, as perhappes they did then in England, yet thinges being since altred, and nowe Ireland much differing from that stae of England, the goode use that then was of them is nowe turned to abuse; for those hills wherof you speake, were (as ye may gather by reading) appointed for two special uses, and built by two severall nations. The one are those which you call Folke-motes, the which were builte by the Saxons, as the woorde bewraieth; for it signifieth in Saxone a meetinge of folke or people, and those are for the most parte in forme fower square, well trenched for the meetinge of that {⬌} . The others that are rounde, were cast up by the Danes, as the name of them doth betoken; for they are called Daneraths, that is, hilles of the Danes, the which were by them devised, not for parlies and Treaties, but appointed as fortes for them to gather unto in troblesome tyme, when any tumult arose; for the Danes, beinge but a fewe in comparison of the Saxons, used this for theire safetie. They made these smale rounde hilles, soe stronglye fenced, in every quarter of the hundred, to the ende that yf in the night, or at any other tyme, any crye or uprore shoulde happen, they might repayre with all speede unto theire owne forte, which was appointed for theire quarter, and there remayne sayfe, tyll they could assemble themselves in greate strengthe: for they were made so stronge, with one smale entrance, that whosover came thither first, were he one or twoe, or like fewe, he or they might rest saife, and defend themselves against manie, tyll more succor came unto them; and when they were gathered to a sufficient nomber they marched to the next fort, and soe forward tyll they mett with the perill, or knewe the occasion thereof. But besides these twoe sortes of hilles, there were auncientlie divers others; for some were raysed, where there had bene a greate battayle, as a memorye or trophes thereof; others, as monuments of buryalls of the carcasses of all those that were slaine in any fyghte, upon whome they did throwe up such rounde mounts, as memorialls for them, and sometimes did cast up great heapes of stones, as you may read the like in many places of the Scripture, and other whiles they did throw up many round heapes of earth in a circle, like a garland, or pitch many long stones on ende in compasse, every one of which they say, betokened some worthie person of note there slayne and buried; for this was theire auncyent custome, before Christianitie came in amongest them that church-yardes were inclosed.

Eudoxus

Yee have very well declared the originall of these mountes and greate stones encompassed, which some vaynely terme the olde Gyants Tryvetts, and thincke that these huge stones woulde not ells bee brought into order or reared up without the strengthe of gyants. And others as vaynelie thincke that they were never placed there by mans hand or arte, but only remayned there since the beginninge, and were afterwards discovered by the deluge, and layed open by the washinge of the waters, or other like casullytie. But lett them dreame their owne imaginacons to please themselves; but yee have satisfied me much better, both by that I see some confirmacon thereof in the Holy Wrytt, and allso remember that I have red in many historyes and Cronicles the lie mounts and stones oftentimes menconed.

Irenius

There bee many greate authorities, I assure you, to prove the same; but as for these meetinges on hilles, whereof wee were much speakinge, yt is verye inconvenient that any such shoulde be permitted, specially in a people soe evill mynded as they nowe bee and diverslie showe themselves.

Eudoxus

But yt is very needfull me seemes for many other purposes, as for the countrye to gather togeather when there is any imposicon to be laied upon them, to the which they then all agree att such meetings to cutt and devide upon themselves, accordinge to theire holdinges and abilities. Soe as yf att these assemblies there bee any officers, as Constables, Bayliffes, or such like amongest them, there cann be noe perill or doubte of such bad practices.

Irenius

Nevertheles, daungerous are such assemblies, whether for cesse or ought ells, the Constables and Officers beinge allso of the Irishe; and yf there happen there to bee of the English, even to them they may proue perillous. Therefore for avoydinge of all such evill occasions, they were best to be abolished.

Eudoxus

But what is that which you call cesse? yt is a word sure unused amongest us here; therefore I pray you expounde the same.

Irenius

Cesse is none other but that your selfe called imposicon, but yt is in a kinde unacquainted perhappes unto you. For there are cesses of sondry sortes; one the cessinge of souldiors upon the country; for Ireland being a country of warr as yt is handled, and all wayes full of souldyors, they which have the goverment, whether they finde yt the most ease to the Queenes purse, or most ready meanes at hande for the victualinge of souldiors, or that necessitie enforceth them thereunto, doe scatter the army abrode the country, and place them in townes to take their victualls of them, att such vacant tymes as they lye not in campe, nor are otherwise imployed in service. Another kinde of Cesse, is the imposinge of provision for the Governors house keepinge, which though yt be most necessary, and be allso, for avoyding of all the evilles formerly therein used, lately brought to a composicon, yet yt is not without greate inconveniences, no lesse then here in England, or rather much more. The like Cesse is allso charged upon the country sometymes for victuallinge of the souldyors, when they lie in garrison, at such tymes as when there is none remayninge in the Queenes store, or that the same cannot convenientlie bee conveyed to theire place of garrison. But these twoe are not easie to be redressed when necessity thereto compelleth; but as the former, as yt is not necessary, soe yt [is] most hurtfull and offensyve to the poore Country, and nothinge convenient to the souldyor himselfe, whoe during his lyinge at Cesse, useth all kinde of outragious disorder and villanie, both towards the poore men that victell and lodge them, and allso to all the rest of the Country round about them, whome they abuse, spoile, and afflicte by all the meanes they cann invent: for they will not only content themselves with such victualls as theire hostes doe provide them, nor yet as the place will afford, but they will have theire meate provided for them, and aqua vitae sent for; yea and money besides layed at his trencher, which yf he wante, then about the howse he walketh with the wretched poore man and the sillye poore wief, whoe are glade to purchase theire peace with any thinge. By which vyle manner of abuse, the country people, yea and the very English which dwell abrode and see, and sometimes feele these outrages, growe into greate detestacon of the souldyor, and thereby into hatred of the very goverment, which draweth upon them such evilles: And therefore this yee may also joyne with the former evill customes which yee haue to reprove in Ireland.

Eudoxus

Trulie this is one not the least, and though the persons, of whom yt is used be of better note then the former rogish sorte which yee reckoned, yet the faulte [is] no lesse worthye of a Marshall.

Irenius

That were a hard corse, Eudoxus, to redres every abuse by a Marshall: yt would seeme to you evill sugery to cutt of every unsounde sicke part of the body, which, beinge by other due meanes recovered, might afterwards doe very good service to the body againe, and haply helpe to save the whole: Therefore I thincke better that some good salve for redres of this evill be sought forth, then the least parte suffred to perishe. But hereof wee have to speake in another place. Nowe we will proceede to the other like defectes, amonge which there is one generall inconvenience which rayneth allmost throughout all Ireland: and that of the Lords of land, and fre-holders, whoe doe not there use to sett out theire lands to farme, or for terme of yeres, to their tennants, but only from yere to yere, and some during pleasure; nether indeede will the Irishe tennant or husband otherwise take his lande then so longe as he list himselfe. The reason hereof in the tennant is, for that the landlords there use most shamefully to racke theire tenants, layinge upon him coygnie and livery at pleasure, and exactinge of him besides his covenante, what he please. So that the poore husbandman either dare not binde himselfe to him for longer tyme, or that he thinketh by his contynuall libertie of chainge to keepe his landlorde the rather in awe from wronginge of him. And the reason whie the landlord will not longer covenante with him is, for that he daylie looketh for chainge and alteracon, and hovereth in expectacon of newe worldes.

Eudoxus

But what evill commeth hereby to the commonwealth? or what reason is yt that any landlord should not sett, nor any tennante take his land as himselfe list?

Irenius

Marry, the evilles that commeth hereby are greate, for by this meanes both the landlord thinketh that he hath his tennante more at commaund, to followe him into waht accon soever he will enter, and allso the tennant, beinge left at his liberty, is fitt for every variable occasion of chainge that shalbe offered by tyme: and so much allso the more willinge and ready is hee to runne into the same, for that he hath no such estate in any his holdinge, no suche buyldinge upon any farme, no such costs ymployed in fencing and hubandinge the same, as might withholde him from any such willfull corse, as his lords cause, and his owne lewde disposicon may carry him unto. All which he hath forborne, and spared soe much expence, for that he had no former estate in his tenement, but was only a tennante at will or little more, and soe at will may leave yt. And this inconvenience maye be reason enough to ground any ordinance for the good of a Common-wealth, against the private behoofe or will of any landlord that shall refuse to graunte any such terme or estate unto his tennante as may tend to the good of the whole Realme.

Eudoxus

Indeede me seemes yt is a greate willfulnes in any such landlord to refuse to make any longer farmes to theire tennants, as may, besides the generall good of the Realme, be also greatly for theire owne profit and avayle: For what reasonable man will not thinke that the tenement shalbe made much the better for the lords behoofe, yf the tennante may by such meanes be drawen to buylde himselfe some handsome habitacon thereof, to dytch and enclose his grounde, to manure and husband yt as good farmers use? For when his tennants terme shalbe expired, yt will yeilde him, in the renewinge his lease, both a good fyne, and allso a better rente. And also it wil be for the good of the tenent likewise, whoe by such buyldinges and inclosures shall receave many benefitts: first, by the handsomenes of his howse, he shall take greate comforte of his lief, more saife dwellinge, and a delight to keepe his saide howse neate and cleanely, which nowe beinge, as they commonly are, rather swyne-steades then howses, is the chiefest cause of his soe beastlie manner of life, and saluaige condicon, lyinge and lyvinge together with his beaste in one howse, in one rowme, and in one bed, that is the cleane strawe, or rather the fowle dounghill. And to all these other commodities he shall in shorte tyme finde a greater added, that is his owne wealth and riches encreased, and wonderfully enlarged, by keepinge his cattle in enclosures, where they shall allwayes have fresh pasture, that nowe is all trampled and over runne; warme cover, that nowe lyeth open to all weather; saife beinge, that nowe are contynually filched and stollen.

Irenius

Yee have well, Eudoxus, accompted the commodities of this one good ordinance, amongest which this that yee have named last is not the leaste: for all thother beinge most beneficiall both to the Landlord and the tenantes, this chiefly redoundeth to the good of the commonwealth, to have the lande thus inclosed, and well fenced. For yt is both a principall barre and impeachment unto theves from stealinge of cattle in the night, and allso a gaule against all rebelles and outlawes, that shall rise up in any nombers against government; for the theefe thereby shall have much adooe, first to bringe forth, and afterwards to dryve [away] his stollen pray but through the common high wayes, where he shall soone bee descryed and mett wythall: And the rebell or open enemye, yf any suche shall happen, either at home, or from abroade, shall easilie be founde when he commeth forth, and be well encountered withall by a fewe in soe straight passages and strong enclosures. This, therefore, when we come to the reforminge of all these evill customes before menconed, is needefull to be remembred. But nowe by this tyme me seemes that I have well runne through the evill uses which I have observed in Ireland. Nevertheles I will note that many more there bee, and infinitely many more in the private abuses of men. But those that are most generall, and tendinge to the hurte of the common wealth, as they have come to my remembrance, I have as breifly as I could rehearsed unto you. And therefore I thincke best that wee passe to our thirde parte, in which wee noted inconvenience that is in religion.

Eudoxus

Surelie you have very well handled these rwoe former, and yf you shall as well goe thorough the thirde likewise, yee shall meritt a very good meede.

Irenius

Little have I to saye of religion, both because the partes thereof bee not many, yt selfe beinge but one, and my selfe have not been much conversant in that callinge, but as lightlye passinge bye I have seene or hearde: Therefore the faulte which I finde in religion is but one, but the same universall thoroughout all that countrye; that is, that they are all Papists by theire profession, but in the same soe blindlie and brutishlie informed, for the most parte, as that you would rather thincke them Atheists or Infidelles, for not one amongest an hundred knoweth any ground of religion, and any Article of his faythe, but canne perhappes, say his pater noster, or his Ave Maria, without any knowledge or understandinge what one worde thereof meaneth.

Eudoxus

This is truly a moste pyttifull hearinge that so many sowles shulde falle into the Devilles handes at once and lacke the blessed comfort of the sweete gospell and Christs deare passyon. Aye me, how commeth yt to passe, that beinge a people, as they are, tradinge with soe many nacons and frequented of soe many, yet they have not tasted any parte of those happie Joyes, nor once bene lightned with the morning starre of truth, but lye mellinge in such sperituall darknes hard by hell mouthe, eaver ready to fall in, yf God happilie helpe not?

Irenius

The generall faulte commeth not of any late abuse either in the people or their priests, whoe can teach [noe] better then [they] knowe, nor showe noe more light than they have seene, but in the first instruccon, and planting religion in all that Realme, which was I reade in the tyme of Pope Calestine, whoe, as yt is wrytten, did first sende over thither Palladius, whoe thence decreasinge, he afterwards sent over St. Patricke, being by nacon a Brytton, whoe converted the people, beinge then infidelles, from paganisme, and Christened them: in which Popes tyme and longe before, yt is certen that religion was generally corrupted with theire popish trumpery. Therfore what other could they learne, then suche trashe as was taught them and drincke of that Cuppe of fornicacon [with] which the purple harlott had then made all nacons drounken?

Eudoxus

What, doe you then blame and find faulte with soe good an acte in that good Pope, as the reducinge of such a greate people to Christendome, bringing soe many sowles to Christe? yf that were ill, what is good?

Irenius

I doe not blame the Christendome of them: for to be sealed with the marke of the Lambe, by what hand soe ever yt bee done rightlie, I hould yt a good and gracious marke, for the generall profession which [they] then take upon them at the Crosse and fayth in Christe. I nothinge doubte but through the powerfull grace of that mighty Savior [it] will worke salvacon in many of them. But nevertheless since they drouncke not of the pure springe of life, but only tasted of such troubled waters as were brought unto them, the dragges thereof have brought a greate Contagion in theire sowles, the which daylie encresinge and beinge still more augmented with theire owne lewde lyves and filthie conversacon, hath nowe breed in them this generall disease that cannot but only with very stronge purgacons, bee clensed and carried awaye.

Eudoxus

Then for this defecte you finde no faulte with the people themselves, nor with the preists which take the charge of sowles, but with the first ordinance and institucon thereof.

Irenius

Not so, Eudoxus for the sinne or ignorance of the prieste shall not excuse the people, nor the authoritie of theire greate pastor, Peters successor, shall not excuse the prieste, but they all shall dye in their sinnes: for they have all erred and gone out of the waye together.

Eudoxus

But yf this ignorance of the people bee sucha burthen unto the Pope, is yt not a like blott to them that nowe holde that place, in that they which nowe are in the light themselves suffer a people under their care to wallowe in such deadly darknes? for I doe not see that the fault is changed but the faultines.

Irenius

That which you blame, Eudoxus, is not I suppose any fault of will in these godly fathers which have charge thereof, nor any defecte of zeale for reformacon, but the inconvenience of the tyme and troublous occasions, wherewith that wretched Realme hath bene contynually turmoyled; for instruccon in religion needeth quiett tymes, and ere wee seeke to settle a sounde discypline in the cleargie, wee must purchase [peace] unto the layetie, for yt is yll tyme to preach amongest swords, and most hard, or rather ympossible, yt is to settle a good opinion in the myndes of men for matters of religion dowbtfull, which have dowbtles evill opinion of ourselves; for ere a newe be brought in, the oulde must be removed.

Eudoxus

Then belike yt is meete that some fitter tyme bee attended, that God sende peace and quietnes there in Civill matters before yt be attempted in ecclesiasticall. I would rather have thought that as yt is said, correccon shoulde begynne at the howse of God, and that the care of the soule should have benn preferred before the care of the bodye.

Irenius

Most true, Eudoxus, the care of the sowle and sowle matters are to be preferred before the care of the body, in consideracon of the worthines thereof, but not in the tyme of reformacon; for if you should knowe a wicked person dangerouslie sicke, havinge nowe both sowle and body greatly diseased, yet both recoverable, would you not thincke yt ill advertisement to bringe the preacher before the phisicon? for yf his body were neglected, yt is like that his languishinge sowle being disquieted by his diseasefull body, would utterly refuse and loath all sprituall comfort. But yf his body were first recured, and brought to good frame, should there not then bee found best tyme to to recure his sowle also? Soe yt is in the stae of a Realme: Therefore as I saide yt is expedient, first to settle such a coorse of goverment there, as thereby both Civill disorders and ecclesiasticall abuses may be reformed and amended, whereto needeth not any such greate distance of tymes, as yee suppose I requier, but one joynte resolucon for both, that each might second and confirme the other.

Eudoxus

That wee shall see when wee come thereto: in the meane tyme I consider thus much, as you have delyvered, touchinge the generall faulte which yee suppose in religion, to weete, that it is popishe; but doe you finde no particular abuses therein, in the ministers thereof?

Irenius

Yes verilie; for what ever disorders yee see in the Church of England yee may finde there, and many more: namelie, grosse symonie, greedy covetousnes, fleshlie incontinece, careles slougth, and generally all disordered lief in the common clergiemen. And besides all these, they have theire owne particular enormities; for all the Irishe preists, which now enjoye the church lyvings there, are in a manner meere laymen, soe like Laymen [that they] lyve like laymen, followe all kindes of hubandrye and other worldly affaires, as the other Irishe laymen doe. They nether reade scriptures, nor preach to the people, nor mynister the Sacrament of Communion; but the Baptisme they doe, for they christen yet after the popish fashion, and with the popish lattine mynistracon, only they take the tythes and offeringes, and gather what fruits ells they may of theire lyvinge; the which they convert as badly. And some of them they saye pay as due tributts and shares of theire lyving to their Bishoppes, (I speake of those which are Irish) as they receve them dulye.

Eudoxus

But is that suffered amongest them? It is wonder but that the governors redres such shamefull abuses.

Irenius

Howe can they, since they knowe them not? for the Irishe Bishops have theire cleargie in such awe and subjeccon under them, that they dare not complaine of them, soe as they may doe to them what they please, for they knowinge theire owne unworthynes and incapacitie, and that they are therefore removable att theire bishops will, yeilde what pleaseth him, and he taketh what he listeth: yea, and some of them whose dyoceses are in remote partes, somewhat out of the worldes eye, doe not att all bestowe the benefices, which are in theire owne devocon, upon any, but keepe them in theire owne hands, and sett theire owne servants and horseboyes to take up the Tythes and fraucts of them, with the which some of them purchase greate lands, and buylde fayre castells upon the same. Of which abuse yf any question bee moved, they have a very seemelie coulor of excuse, that they have no worthie mynisters to bestowe them upon, but keepe them soe unbestowed for any such sufficient person as any shall bringe unto them.

Eudoxus

But is there no lawe or ordinance to meete with this mischeife? nor hath yt never before benne looked into?

Irenius

Yes, it seemes yt hath; for there is a statute there enacted in Ireland, which seemes to have benn grounded upon a good meaninge—That whatsoever Englisheman beinge of good conversacon and sufficiency, shalbee brought unto any of those Byshops, and nominated unto any lyvinge within their dyoces that is presently voide, that he shall without contradiccon bee admytted thereunto before any Irishe.

Eudoxus

This is surelie a very good lawe, and well provided for this evill, whereof yee speake: and whie is not the same observed?

Irenius

I thincke yt is well observed, and that none of the bishops transgres the same, but yet yt worketh no reformacon hereof for many respects. First there are no such sufficient Englishe mynisters sent over as might bee presented to any bysshop for any lyvinge, but the moste parte of such Englishe as come over thither of them selves are either unlearned, or men of some bad note, for the which they have forsaken England. So as the Bisshop, to whome they shalbe presented, may justly rejecte them as incapable and insufficient. Secondly, the Bishhop himselfe is perhappes an Irishe man, whoe beinge made judge by that lawe of the sufficiency of the mynister, may at his owne will, dislike of the Englisheman, as unworthye in his opinion, and admytt of any other Irishe whome he shall thincke more fitt for his turne. And yf he shall at the instance of any Englishman of countennance there, whome he will not displease, accept of any such Englishe minister as shalbe tendred unto him, yet he will under hand carry such a hard hande over him, or by his officers wring him so sore, that he will soone make him weary of his poor lyvinge. Lastlye, the benefices themselves are so meane, and of soe smale proffitt in those Irishe countryes, through the ill husbandry of the Irishe people which inhabite them, that they will not yeilde any competent maynetenance for any honest mynister to lyve upon, scarslie to buy him a gowne. And were all this redressed, as happely yt might bee, yet what good should any Englishe mynister doe amongst them, by preachinge or teachinge which either cannot understande him, or will not heare him? Or what comfort of lief shall he have, where his parishioners are soe insacyable, soe intractable, soe ill-affected to him, as they usually bee to all the English? or fynally, how dare allmost any honeste mynisters, that are peacefull civill men, commit his saifetie to the handes of suche neighbors, as the boldest captaines dare scarcelye dwell by?

Eudoxus

Little good then I see is by that statute wrought, howe ever well intended; but the reformacon thereof must growe higher, and be brought from a stronger ordinance then the commaundement or penaltye of a lawe, which none dare enforme or complaine of when yt is broken: but have you any more of these abuses in the cleargie?

Irenius

I coulde perhappes reckon more, but I perceave mye speach to growe to longe, and these may suffice to judge of the generall disorders which raigne amongst them; as for the particulers, they are too manie to bee reckoned. For the cleargie there, except some fewe grave fathers which are in high place about the state, and some others which are lately planted in theire new colledge, are generally bad, lycentious, and most disordered.

Eudoxus

Yee have then, as I suppose, gone through these three first partes which ye purposed unto your selfe, to wyte, the inconveniences which ye observed in the lawes, in the customes, and in the religion of that Land. The which me seemes, you have soe thoroughlie touched, as that nothinge more remayneth nowe to be spoken thereof.

Irenius

Not so thoroughlie as ye suppose, that nothinge more can remayne, but soe generally as I purpost; that is, to lay open the generall evilles of that realme, which doe hinder the good reformacon thereof; for to accounte the particuler faultes of private men, should be a worke infinite; yet some there bee of that nature, that though they bee in pryvate men, yet theire evill reacheth to a generall hurte, as the extorcon of sheriffes, subsheriffes, and their bayliffes, the corrupcon of victuallers, cessors, and purveryors, the disorders of shenescalles, captaines, and their souldyers, and many such like: All which I wil only name here, that theire reformacon may bee mynded in place where yt moste concerneth. But there is one very foule abuse which, by the waye, I may not omitt, and that is in captaines, whoe notwithstandinge that they are speciallie imployed to make peace thorough stronge execucon of warre, yet they doe soe dandle theire doinges, and dally in their service to them commytted, as yf they would not have the enemye subdued, or utterly beaten downe, for feare leaste afterwardes they should neede imployment, and soe be dischrged of paye: for which cause some of them that are layed in Garrison doe so handle the matter, that they will doe noe greate hurte to the enemyes, yet for colour sake some men they will kill, even halfe with the consent of the enemy, being persons either of base regard, or enemies to the enemy, whose heades eftsones they sende in to the Governor for a commendacon of theire greate endevors, telling howe waightie a service they have performed by cuttinge of such and such daingerous Rebelles.

Eudoxus

Trulye this is a pretty mockery, and not to be permitted by the Governors.

Irenius

Yes, but how cann the Governors knowe readily what persons those weare, and what the purpose of theire killinge was? yea, and what will yee saye, if the captaines doe justifye this theire course by ensample of some of theire Governors, whoe, under Benedicite, I doe tell yt to you, doe practise the like sleights in theire goverments?

Eudoxus

Is it possible? Take heed what you saye, Irenius.

Irenius

To you, you only, Eudoxus, I doe tell yt, and that even with greate heartes griefe, and inward trouble of mynde, to see her Majestie soe much abused by some whome they put in specyall trust of theire affayres: of which some, beinge marshall men, will not will not doe allwayes what they may for quietinge of things, but will rather wincke at some faultes, and suffer them unpunished, leaste they havinge put all thinges in that assurance of peace that they might, they shoulde seeme afterwards not to be needed, nor contynued in theire goverments with soe greate a charge to her Majestie. And therefore they doe cunningly carry theire coorse of goverment, and from one hande to another doe bandy the service like a Tennys-balle, which they will never strike quite awaye, for feare leaste afterwards they should want sportes.

Eudoxus

Doe you speake of under magistrates, Irenius, or of principall governors?

Irenius

I doe speake of noe particulars, but the truth may be founde out by tryall and reasonable insighte into some of theire doinges. And yf I shoulde saye there is some blame thereof in some of the principall Governors, I thincke I might allso shewe some reasonable proffe of my speach. For by that which I and many have observed, the like might be gathered. As for ensample, some of them feinge the ende of theire goverment to drawe nighe, and some mischeefe or troublous practise growinge up, which afterwards may worke trouble to the next succeding governor, will not attempt the redres or cuttinge of thereof, either for feare they shoulde leave the realme unquiett att the ende of their goverment, or that the next that commeth shoulde receave the same to quiett, and soe happely wynne more prayse thereof then they before. And therefore they will not as I say, seeke at all to redres that evill, but will eyther by graunting proteccon for a tyme, or houldinge some enparlance with the rebell, or by treaty of commissioners, or other like devises, onely smother and keepe downe the flame of the mischiefe, soe as yt may not breake out in theire tyme of goverment: what comes afterwards they care not, or rather wishe the worst. This coorse hath bene noted in some governors.

Eudoxus

Surelie Irenius this, yf yt were true, should bee worthye of an heauy judgment: but yt ys hardlye to be thought, that any governor should soe much either envye the good of that realme which is putt into his hande, or defraude her Majestie, whoe trusteth him soe much, or maligne his successor which shall possesse his place, as to suffer an evill to growe up, which he might tymelye have kept under, or perhaps to nourishe yt with colloured countenance, or suche synister meanes.

Irenius

I doe not certenly avouch, Eudoxus: but the sequell of thinges doth in a manner prove, and playnely speake soe much, that the governors usually are envyous one of anothers greater glorie, which yf they woulde seeke to excell by better governinge, it shoulde be a most laudable emulacon. But they doe quite otherwise: for this (as yee maye marke,) is the common order of them, that whoe commeth next in place will not followe that coorse of government, how ever good, which his predecessor helde, or for desdaine of himselfe, or dowbte to have his doinges drowned in another mans prayse, but will straighte take a way quite contrarye to the former: as yf the former thought by keepinge under the Irishe, to reforme them, the next, by discontynencinge the Englishe will curry favor with the Irishe and soe make his government seeme plausible in viewe, as havinge all the Irishe at his commaund: but he that comes next after will perhappes follow neither thone nor thother, but will dandle thone and thother in suche sorte, as he will sucke sweete out of them both, and leave bitternes to the poore lande, which yf he that comes after shall seeke to redres, he shall perhappes finde such crosses as he shalbe hardly able to beare, or doe any good that might worke disgrace of his predecessors. Ensmples hereof yee maye see in the governors of late tymes sufficientlye, and in others of former tymes more manifestlye, when the government of that Realme was commytted sometymes to the Geraldynes, as when the Howse of Yorke helde the Crowne of England; sometymes to the Butlers, as when the Howse of Lancaster gott the same. And other whiles, when an Englishe governor was appointed, he perhappes founde enemies of both. And this is the wretchednes of that fatall kingdome which, I thincke, therefore in old tyme was not called amisse Ranna or Sacra Insula, takinge Sacra for accursed.

Eudoxus

I am sorrie to heare soe much as yee reporte; and nowe I begynne to conceave somewhat more of the cause of her contynuall wretchednes then heretofore I founde, and I wishe that this inconvenyence were looked into: for sure me seemes yt is more waightie then all the former, and more hardly to be redressed in the governor then in the governed; as a maladie in a vitall parte is more incurable then in an externall.

Irenius

You saye very true; but nowe that wee have thus ended all the abuses and inconveniences of that goverment, which was our first parte, it followes next to speake of the seconde part, which was of the meanes to cure and redres the same, which wee must labor to reduce to the first begynninge thereof.

Eudoxus

Right soe Irenius: for by that which I have noted in all this your discourse, yee suppose that the whole ordinance and institucon of that realmes goverment was, both att first when yt was placed, evill plotted, and allso since, through other oversighte, rune more out of square, [to] that disorder which yt is nowe come unto; like as twoe indirect lynes, the further they are drawen out, the further they goe asunder.

Irenius

I doe see, Eudoxus and as yee saye, soe thincke, that the longer that goverment thus contynueth, in the worse case will that Realme bee; for yt is all in vayne that they nowe stryve and endeavor by fayre meanes and peaceable plotts to redres the same without first removinge all those inconveniences, and newe framinge, as yt were in the forge, all that is worne out of fashion: for all other meanes wilbe but lost labor, by patchinge up one hole to make many; for the Irish doe strongly hate and abhor all reformacon and subjeccon to the Englishe, by reason that, havinge bene once subdued by them, they were thrust out of all theire possessions. Soe as nowe they feare, that yf they were againe brought under, they shoulde likewise be expelled out of all, which is the cause that they hate Englishe goverment, accordine to the sayinge, Quem metuunt oderunt: therefore the reformacon must nowe be with the strength of a greater power.

Eudoxus

But, me thinckes, that might bee by makinge of good lawes, and establishinge of newe statuts, with sharpe penalties and punishments for amendinge of all that is presently amisse, and not as ye suppose, to begynne all as yt were anewe, and to alter the whole forme of the goverment; which how daingerous a thinge it is to attempte, you your selfe must needs confesse, and they which have the managinge of the Realmes whole pollycie, cannot, without greate cause, feare and refrayne: for all innovacon is perillous, in soe much as though yt be meante for the better, yet soe many accidents and fearefull events maye come betweene, as that it may hazard the losse of the whole.

Irenius

Very true, Eudoxus; all chainge is to be shunde, where the affayres stand in such state as that they may contynue in quitnes, or bee assured at all to abide as they are. But that in the Realme of Ireland wee see muche otherwise, for every day wee perceave the troubles growinge more upon us, and one evill growinge upon another, in soe much as there is noe parte founde nor assertayned, but all have theire eares upright, waytinge when the watchworde shall come that they shoulde all rise generally into rebellyon, and cast awaye the Englishe sujeccon. To which there nowe little wanteth; for I thincke the worde be alreadye geven, and there wanteth nothinge but opportunitie, which trulye is the death of one noble person, whoe, beinge himselfe most stedfast to his noble Queene and his Countrye, coastinge upon the Southe Sea, stoppeth the ingate of all that evill which is looked for, and holdeth in all those which are at his backe, with the terror of his greatnes, and thassurance of his most immoveable loyalltye: And therefore where you thincke, that good and sounde lawes might amend and reforme thinges amisse there, you thincke surely amisse. For yt is vayne to prescribe lawes, where no man careth for keepinge of them, nor feareth the daunger for breaking of them. But all the realme is first to be reformed, and lawes afterwards to be made for keepinge and contynuinge yt in that reformed estate.

Eudoxus

Howe then doe you thincke is the reformacon thereof to begynne, yf not by the lawes and ordinances?

Irenius

Even by the sworde; for all those evilles must first be cutt awaye with a stronge hande, before any good cann bee planted; like as the corrupt branches and unwholsome lawes are first to bee pruned, and the fowle mosse clensed or scraped awaye, before the tree cann bringe forth any good fruicte.

Eudoxus

Doe you blame me, even nowe, for wyshinge Kerne, Horse-boyes, and Carrowes to be cleane cutt of, as too violent a meanes, and doe your selfe nowe prescribe the same medicyne? Is not the sworde the most violent redres that may be used for any evill?

Irenius

It is soe; but yet where no other remedye maye be found, nor no hope of recovery had, there must needes this violent meanes bee used. As for the loose kinde of people which you woulde have cutt of, I blamed yt, for that they might otherwise perhappes bee brought to good, as namely by this way which I sett before you.

Eudox

Is not your waye all one with the former, in effecte, which you founde falte with, save onely this ods, that I saye by the halter, and you saye by the sworde? what difference is there?

Irenius

There is surely greate, when you shall understand yt; for by the sworde, which I named, I doe not meane the cuttinge of of all that nacon with the sworde, which farr bee yt from me, that ever I should thinke soe desperatelie, or wishe soe uncharitablie, but by the sworde I meane the Royall power of the Prince, which ought to stretch yt selfe forth in ther cheife strengthe to the redressinge and cutting of of those evilles, which I before blamed, and not of the people which are evill. For evill people by good ordynance and goverment may be made good; but the evill that is of yt selfe evill, will never become good.

Eudoxus

I praye you then declare your minde at large, howe you woulde wishe that sworde, which you meane, to bee used to the reformacon of those evilles.

Irenius

The first thinge must bee to sende over into that realme such a stronge power of men, as that shall perforce bringe in all that rebellyous rout of loose people, which either doe nowe stande out in open armes, or in wanderinge companies doe keepe the woodes, spoilinge and infestinge the good subjecte.

Eudoxus

You speake nowe, Irenius, of an infynite charge to her Majestie, to sende over such an armye as shoulde treade downe all that standeth before them on foote, and laye on the grounde all the stiffe-necked people of that lande; for there is nowe but one Outlawe of any greate reckoninge, to wytt, the Earle of Tyrone, abroade in armes, against whome you see what huge charges shee hath bene att this last yere, in sendinge of men, providinge of victualls, and makinge heade against him: yet there is litle or nothinge at all done, but the Queenes treasure spente, her people wasted, the poore countrye troubled, and the enemye nevertheles brought into no more subjeccon then he was, or list outwardlye to showe, which in effecte is none, but rather a scorne of her power, and emboldeninge of a proud Rebell, and an encouragement unto all like lewdelie disposed traytors that shall dare to lifte up theire heele against theire Soveraigne Lady. Therefore yt were harde counsell to drawe such an exceedinge charge upon her, whose event should be soe uncerten.

Irenius

True indeede, yf the event shoulde bee uncerten; but the certentie of theffecte hereof shalbe soe infallable as that noe reason cann gayne say yt, nether shall the charge of all this armie, which I demaund, bee much greater then soe much as in this last twoe yeres warres hath vainlye benn expended. For I dare undertake that it hath cost the Queene above 200000 poundes allready, and for the present charge, that shee is nowe att there, amounteth to the very nere 2000 poundes a monthe whereof cast yee the counte; yet nothinge is done. The which some, had yt benn imployed as yt shoulde bee, woulde have effected al this that I now goe aboute.

Eudoxus

Howe meane you to have yt imployed, but to be spent in the paye of souldyors, and provision of victuall?

Irenius

Right soe, but yt is nowe not disbursed at once, as yt might bee, but drawen out into a longe length, by sendinge over nowe 20000 poundes, and next halfe yere 10000 pounds; soe as the souldyer in the meane tyme, is for wante of due provision of victuall, and goode payement of his due, sterved and consumed; that of a 1000, which came over lustie able men, in halfe a yere there are not lefte 500. And yet is the Queenes charge never the les, but what is not paied in present mony is accompted in debte, which will not be longe unpaied; for the Captaine, halfe of whose souldyors are deade, and thother quarter never mustered, nor seene, comes shortlye to demand payment here of his whole accompte, where, by good meanes of some greate ones, and privie sharinge with the officers and servants of other some, he receiveth his debte, much lesse perhapps then was due, yett much more indeede then he justlye deserved.

Eudoxus

I take this, sure, to be no good husbandrye; for what must needes be spent, at once, where is inough, as to have it drawne out into longe delaies, seinge that thereby both the service is much hindered, and yett nothinge saved: but yt may be the Queenes treasure is soe greate a some together, but beinge paide as yt is, now some and then some, yt is noe great burden unto her, nor any great ympoverishment to her coffers, seinge by such delaye of time that it daylie cometh in soe fast as shee poureth it out.

Irenius

Yt may be as you saide, but for the goeinge through of soe honorable a course I doubt not but yf the Queenes coffers be not soe well stored, which wee are not to looke into, but that the whole realme which now, as things are used, doe feele a continuall burthen of that wretched realme hangeinge upon theire backes, would, for a finall ryddance of that trouble, be once troubled for all; and put to all theire shouldiers, and helping hands, and hartes alsoe, to the defrayinge of that charge, most gladfullie and willinglye; and surely the charge, in effect, is nothinge to the infinite greate good which shold come thereby, both to the Queene, and all this realme genarallye, as when tyme serveth shalbe shewed.

Eudoxus

How manye men then would you require to the finnishing of this which yee take in hand? and how longe space would you have them intertained?

Irenius

Verely, not above ten thousand footemen, and a 1000 horse, and all those not above the space of one year and a halfe; for I would still, as the heate of the service abateth, abate the nomber in paye, and make other provision for them, as I will show.

Eudoxus

Surely, yt semeth not much that you require, nor noe long time: but how would you have them used? would you leade forth your armye against the enymie, and seeke him where he is to fight?

Irenius

No, Eudoxus, it would not be, for it is well knowne that he is a flying enimye, hidynge himself in woodes and bogges, from whence he will not draw forth, but into some straight passage or perilous forde where he knowes the armye most needes passe; there will he lye in wait, and, if hee finde advantage fitt, will dangerouslye hazard the troubled souldier. Therefore to seeke him owte that still flyeth, and follow him that cann hardlye be found, were vaine and bootlesse; but I would devide my men in garrison upon his countrye, in such places as I would thincke might most annoy him.

Eudoxus

But how can that bee, Irenius, with so few men? for thenemy, as ye now see, is not all in one countyre, but some in Ulster, some in Connaught, and others in Leinster. So as to plainte stronge garrisons in all these places should neede many moe men then you speake of, or to plainte all in one, and to leave the rest naked, should be but to leave them to the spoyle.

Irenius

I would wish the chiefe power of the armye to bee garrisoned in one countrye that is strongest, and the other upon the rest that are weakest: As for example, the Earle of Tyrone is now counted the strongest; upon him would I laye 8000 men in garrison, 1000 upon Pheagh Mac Hugh and the Cavanaghes, and 1000 upon some partes of Connaghe to be at the direction of the Governor.

Eudoxus

I see now all your men bestowed, but in what places would you sett theire garrison that they might rise out most convenientlye to service? and though perhaps I am ignorant of the places, yet I will take the mapp of Ireland before me, and make my eyes in the mean while my schole-maisters, to guid my understandinge to judge of your plott.

Irenius

These 8000 in Ulster I would devide likewise into foure parts, so as theire should be 2000 footmen in everye garrison; the which I would thus place. Upon the Blackwater, in some convenient place, high upon the ryver as might bee, I would laye one garrison. Another would I put at Castlelisser or Castlefine thereaboutes, soe as they should have all the passages upon the river to Loghfoyle. the third I would place aboute Fermaugh or Bondroise, soe as they might lye betweene Connaugh and Ulster, to serve upon both sides, as occasion shalbe offered; and this therefore would I have stronger then any of the rest, because yt should be most enforced, and most ymployed, and that they might put wardes at Ballashanon, Belike, and all those passages. The rest would I sett aboute Mannaghan or Belterbert, soe as yt should fronte both upon thenymie that waye, and alsoe keepe the countye of Cavan an Meath in awe from passinge of straglers, and out gaders from those partes, whence they use to come forthe, and oftentymes worke much mischiefe. And to everye of theise garisons of 2000. footemen, I would have 200. horsemen added, for thone without thother can do but litle service. The foure garrisons, thus beinge placed, I would have to be victualled aforehand for half a yeare, which you will saie to be harde, consideringe the corruption and usuall wast of victualls. But why should they not be aswell victualed for soe longe tyme, as the shipes are usuallye for a yeare, and sometymes twoe, seinge it is easier to keepe them on land then on water? There breade would I have in flower, so as it might be baked still to serve there want. There drinke alsoe there brewed within them, from tyme to tyme, and their beef befor hande barrelled, the which maye be used as it is needed; for I make noe doubt but of freshe victuall they will sometimes purvay themselves amongst theire enymies Creete. Here unto would I alsoe have them have a store of hose and shooes, with such other necessaries as maye be needfull for souldiers, soe as they shall have no occasion to looke for reliefe from abroade, or occasion such trouble, for their contynuall supplye, as I see and have often proved in Ireland to be more coumberous to the Deputy, and more daungerous to them that relief them, then half the leadinge of an Armye; for the enemy, knowinge the ordinarye wayes by which theire relief most be brought them, useth commonlye to draw himselfe into the straught pasages thitherwarde and oftentymes doth daungerously distres them: besides, the pay of such force as should be sent for theire convoye, the charge of the carryages, the exactions of the countrye shalbe spared. But onely every halfe yeare the supplye brought by the Deputye himself, and his power, whoe shall then visite and overlooke all those garrisons, to see what is needed, to change what is expedient, and to directe what he shall best advise. And these fowre garrisons yssuinge forth, at such convenient tymes as they shall have intelligence or espeiall upon the enemie will soe drive him from one steade to another, and tennis him amongst them, that he shall finde noe where saif to keepe his creet, nor hide himself, but flyinge from the fyer shall fall into the water, and out of one daunger into another, that is shorte tyme his Creet, which is his most susteniance, shalbe waisted with prayeinge, or killed with drivinges, or starved for want of pasture on the woodes, and he himselfe brought so low, that he shall have no arte nor abbilitye to endure his wretchednesse, the which will surely come to passe in verie short space; for one winters well followinge of him will soe plucke him on his knees, that he will never be able to stand up againe.

Eudoxus

Doe you then thinke the winter tyme fittest for the services of Ireland? how falls it then that our most imployment be in sommer, and the armyes then ledd commonlye foorth?

Irenius

It is surely misconceyved; for yt is not with Ireland as with other countryes, where the wars flame most in sommer, and the helmets glyster brightest in the faire sonneshine: But in Ireland the winter yeildeth best services, for then the trees are bare and naked, which use both to cloath and howse the kerne; the ground is could and wett, which useth to be his beddinge; the ayre is sharpe and bitter, which useth to blow through his naked sides and legges; the kyen are barren and without milke, which useth to be his onelye foode, neyther yf he kill them will they yeild hime flesh, nor yf hee keepe them will they give him foode; besides then being all in calf for the most parte, they will, through much chasing and driuinge, cast all theire calues, and loose all their milke, which should relief him the next sommer after.

Eudoxus

I doe well understand your reason; but by your leave, I have hard yt other wise saide, of some that weare outlawes, that in sommer they kept themselves quiet, but in winter would plaie theyre partes, and when the nights weare longest, then burne and spoyle most, soe that they might safelye returne before daye.

Irenius

I have likewise harde and likewise sene proofe thereof trewe: but that was of such outlawes as war abiddinge in well inhabited countrye, as in Mounster, all a-bordringe to the English pale, as Pheah Mac Hugh, the Cavanaghes, the Mores, the Dempses, the Ketinges, the Kellies, or such like: For for them indeed the night is the fittest tyme for spoyleing and robbinge, because the nightes are then, as ye said, longest and darkest, and also the countryes all aboute are then fulle of corne, and good provision to be everye where gotten by them; but it is far otherwise with a stronge peopled enymye, that possesse a whole countrye, for thother beinge but a few, are indeede privillye lodged, and kept in out villages and corners nigh the woodes and mountaynes, by some of theire privie freinds, to whom they bringe theire spoyles and stealthes, and of whom they continuallye receive secreete relief; but the open enymye haveinge all his countrye wasted, what by him, and what by the soldiers, finddeth them succor in noe places. Townes there are none of which he may gett spoile, they are all burnt; Countrye houses and farmers there are none, they be all fleed; breade he hath none, he plowed not in sommer; flesh he hath, but if he kill yt in winter, he shall want milke in sommer, and shortly want life. Therefore yf they bee well followed but one winter, yee shall have litle worke to doe with them the next sommer.

Eudoxus

I doe now well perceave the dyfference, and doe verelye thinke that the winter tyme is there fyttest for service: withall I perceave the manner of youre handlinge the services, by draweinge sudden draughtes upon the enimye, when he looketh nott for you, and to watch advantage upon him, as he doth uppon you. By which straight keepinge of them in, and not sufferinge them longe at anye tyme to rest, I must needes thinke that they most sone be brought low, and dryven to great extremyties. All which when you have perfourmed, and brought them to the verye last cast, suppose that eyther they will offer to come in unto you and submit themselves, or that some of them will seeke to withdraw themselves, what is youre advise to doe? will you have them receaved?

Irenius

Noe; but at the beginiynge of these warrs, and when the garrisons are well planted and fortyfied, I would wish a proclamacon wear made generally to come to there knowledge, that what persons soever would within twentye dayes absolutelye submite themselves, exceptinge onlelye the verye principall and ringeleaders, should find grace: I doubt not, but upon the setlinge of these garrisons, such a terror and nere consideracon of there perilous estate will be stricken into most that they will covett to draw awaye from theire leaders. And againe I well knowe that the rebells themselves (as I saw by proof in the Desmonds warrs) will turne awaye all theire rascall people, whom they thinke unserviseable, as ould men, woemen, children, and hyndes, which they call churles, which would onely wast theire victualls, and yeilde them no ayde; but theire cattell they will surely keepe awaye: These therefore though pollicye would turne then backe againe, that they might the reyther consume and afflict the other rebells, yett in a pittifull commisseration, I would wishe them to be received; the reyther for that this base sort of people doth not for the most parte rebell of himselfe, have no harte thereunto, but is of force drawne by the grand rebels into theire action, and caryed awaye with the violence of the streame, ells he should bee sure to loose all that he hath, and perhappes his life alsoe, the which now he caryeth with them, in hope to enjoy them theire, but he is there by the stronge rebells themselves turned out of all, so that the constraint hereof maye in him deserve pardon. Liewise yf anye of there able men or gentlemen shall offer to come awaie, and to bringe there creete with them, as some no doubte may steale them away prevelye, I wishe them alsoe to be receaved, for the disablinge of thenymye, but withall, that good assurance maye be taken of theire true behayvor and absolute submission, and that they then be not suffered to remaine anye longer in those parts, no nor about the garison, but sent awaye into the inner parts of the realme, and dispersed in such sorte as they shall not come togeather, nor easelye retorne yf they would: For if they might be suffered to remaine about the garrison, and there inhabite, as shall offer to till the ground, and yeild a great parte of the profitt thereof, and of theire cattell, to the coronell, wherewith they have heretofore tempted manie, they would (as I have by experience knowen) bee ever after such a gall and inconvenyence to them, as that theire profitt should not recompence theire hurte; for they will privilie releive theire friendes that are forth; they will send the enemye secrett advertisement of all there purposes and jorneyes which they meane to make upon them; they will also not stick to drawe the enimye upon them, yea and to betraye the forte it self, by discoverye of all defects and disadvantages yf anye bee, to the cuttinge of all theire throts. For avoydinge whereof and manye other inconveniences, I wish that they should be carried farr from thence into some other parts, soe as I saide, they come and submitt themselves, upon the first sommons: but afterwards I would have none received, but lefte to their fortune and miserable end: my reason is, for that those which afterwards remaine without, are stoute and obstinate rebells, such as will never be made dutyfull and obedient, nor brought to labor or civill conversation, havinge once tasted the licensious life, and beinge acquainted with spoyle and outrages, will ever after be readye for the like occasions, soe as there is no hope of theire amendement of recoverye, and therefore nedefull to be cutt of.

Eudoxus

Surelye of such desperat persons, as will follow the course of theire owne follye, there is noe comparison to bee hadd, and for the others yee have purposed a mercifull meanes, much more then they have deserved: but what shall be the conclusion of this warr? for you have prefixed a shorte tyme of theire contenewance.

Irenius

The end I assure mee will be verie shorte, and much soner then cann bee, in soe great trouble (as yt semeth) hoped for, although there should none of them fall by the sword, nor be slaine by the soldier, yett thus beinge keepte from manurance, and theire cattle from runinge abroade, by this hard restrainte, they would quicklye consume themselves, and devoure one an other. The proof whereof I saw sufficientlye ensampled in those late warrs in Mounster; for notwithstandinge that the same was a most ritch and plentyfull countrye, full of corne and cattell, that you would have thought they could have beene hable to stand longe, yett eare one yeare and a half they weare brought to such wretchednes, as that anye stonye herte would have rewed the same. Out of everye corner of the woode and glenns they came creepinge forth upon theire handes, for theire legges could not beare them; they looked Anatomies [of] death, they spake like ghostes, crying out of theire graves; they did eate of the carrions, happye wheare they could find them, yea, and one another soone after, in soe much as the verye carcasses they spared not to scrape out of theire graves; and if they found a plott of water-cresses or shamrockes, theyr they flocked as to a feast for the time, yett not able long to contynewe therewithall; that in a shorte space there were none almost left, and a most populous and plentyfull countrye suddenly lefte voyde of man or beast: yett sure in all that warr, there perished not manye by the sworde, but all by the extreamytie of famyne which they themselves hadd wrought.

Eudoxus

It is a wonder that you tell, and more to bee wondred how yt should soe shortly come to passe.

Irenius

It is most true, and the reason alsoe very readye; for ye must conceive that the strength of all that nation is the Kearne, Gallowglasse, Stocagh, Horsman, and Horseboy, the which haveing ben never used to have any thinge of theire owne, and now livinge of others, make no sparre of anye thinge but havocke and confusion of all they meete with, whether yt bee theire frindes goods, or there foes. And if they happen to gett never soe greate spoyles at anye tyme, the same they spoyle and waste at a tryce, as naturallye delightinge in spoyle, though it doe themselves noe good. On thother side, whatsoever they leave unspent, the soldier, when hee cometh there, he havocketh and spoyleth likewise, soe that betweene them both nothinge is very shortlye lefte. And yett this is verye necessarye to be done, for the sonne finyshinge of the warr; and nott onely this in this wise, but also all those subjects which border upon those parts, are wyther to bee removed and drawne awaye, or likewise to bee spoyled, that the enymie may finde no succor therebye: for what the soldyer spares the rebell will surelye spoyle.

Eudoxus

I doe now well understand you. But now when all thinges are brought to this passe, and all filled with these ruefull spectackles of soe manye wretched carcases starvinge, goodly countryes wasted, soe huge a desolation and confusion, as even I that doe but heare yt from you, and doe picture it in my mynd, doe greatlye pittye and commiserate it, yf it shall happen, that the state of this miserie and lamentable image of thinges shall bee toulde, and felingelye presented to her sacred majestye, beinge by nature full of mercie and clemencye, who is most inclynable to such pittyfull complants, and will not indure to here such tragidyes made of her people and poore subjects as some about her maie insinuate; then shee perhapps, for very compassion of such calamityes, will not onely stopp the streame of such violence, and returne to her wonted myldnes, but also cone them litle thankes which have beene the aucthors and counsellers of such blodye plattformes. Soe I remember that in the late government of that good Lord Graye, where after long travell and many perillous assaies, he hadd brought thinges almost to this passe that ye speake of, that yt was even made ready for reformation, and might have ben brought to what her majestye would, like complainte was made against him, that he was a bloodye man, and regarded not the life of her subjectes noe more then dogges, but hadd wasted and consumed all, soe as now shee had nothinge left; but to reigne in theire ashes: her Majesties eare was sonne lent thereunto, all suddenlye turned topsye turvie; the noble Lord eftsoones was blamed; the wretched people pittied; and newe counsells plotted, in which it was concluded that a generall pardon should be sent over to all that would accepte of yt: upon which all former purposes were blancked, the Governor at a baye, and not onely all that greate and longe charge which shee hadd before beene at, quite lost and cancelled, but alsoe all that hope of good which was even at the doore putt backe, and clean frustrate. All which whether yt be trew, or not, your selfe cann well tell.

Irenius

Too trewe, Eudoxus, the more the pittye, for I may not forgett soe memorable a thinge: neyther cann I be ignorante of that perillous devise, and of the whole meanes by which it was compassed, and verye cunninglye contrived, by soweinge first dyssension betweene him and an other noble personage, wherein they both at length found how notablie they had beene abused, and how therebye, under hand, this universal alteracon of thinges was brought aboute, but then to late to staie the same; for in the meane tyme all that was formerly done with longe labour and great toyle, was (as you saye) in a moment undone, and that good Lord blotted with the name of a bloody man, whom, who that well knewe, knewe to be most gentle, affable, lovinge and temperate; but that the necessitie of that present state of thinges enforced him to that violence, and almost changed his verrye naturall dispostion. But otherwise he was so farre from delighting in blodd, that oftentymes he suffred not just vengeance to fall where it was deserved: and even some of those which were afterwardes his accusers, had tasted to much of his mercye, and were from the gallowes brought to be his accusers. But his course indeede was this, that he spared not the heades and principalls of any mischevous practize or rebellion, but shewed sharpe judgement on them, cheifly for an example sake, that all the meaner sort, which also were then generally infected with that evill, might by terror thereof be reclaymed, and saved, yf it were [possible]. For in the last conspiracy of some of the English pale, thinke you not that there were many more guyltie then [they] that felt the punishment? or was there any almost clere from the same? yet he towched onely a fewe of speciall note; and in the triall of them also even to prevent the blame of crueltie and parciall proceadinge as seekinge their blood, which he, in his great wisedome (as it seemeth) did fore-see would be objected against him; he, for avoydinge thereof, did use a singular discretion and regarde. For the Jury that went upon their triall, he made to be chosen out of their neerest kinnesmen, and their Judges he made of some their owne fathers, of others their uncles and dearest freindes, who when they coulde not but justly condemne them, yet uttered their judgment in aboundance of teares, and yett even herein he was accompted bloody and cruell.

Eudoxus

Indeede so have I heard it often so spoken, but I perceyve (as I alwaies verely thought) that it was most unjustly; for hee was alwaies knowne to be a most just, sincere, godly, and right noble man, far from suche stearnenesse, far from suche unrighteousnes. But in that sharpe execucon of the Spaniards at the forte of Seuawick, I heard it specially noted, and, if it were trewe as some reported, surely it was a great towche to him in honor, for some say that he promised them life; others that at the least he did put them in hope thereof.

Irenius

Both the one and the other is most untrue; for this I can assure you, my self beinge as neare them as any, that hee was so farre from promisinge or putting [them] in hope, that when first their Secretary, called, as I remember Segnor Jeffrey, an Italian [being] sent to treate with the Lord Deputie for grace, was flatly refused; and afterwardes their Coronell, named Don Sebastian, came forth to intreate that they might part with their armes like souldiers, at least with their lyves, accordinge to the custome of warre and lawe of Nations, it was strongly denyed him, and tolde him by the Lord Deputie him selfe, that they coulde not iustly pleade either customme of warr, of lawe of Nations, for that they were not any lawfull enemyes; and if they were, willed them to shewe by what commission they came thither into another Prices domynions to warre, whether from the Pope or the Kinge of Spayne, or any other. Then when they saide they had not, but were onely adventurers that came to seeke fortune abroade, and serve in warrs amongst the Irishe, who desired to entertayne them, it was then tolde them, that the Irishe them selves, as the Earle and John of Desmonde with the rest, were no lawfull enemyes, but Rebells and traytors; and therefore they that came to succor them no better than rogues and runnagates, specially comminge with no licence, nor commission from their owne Kinge: so as it shoulde be dishonorable for him in the name of his Queene to condicon or make any tearmes with suche rascalls, but left them to their choyce, to yiedle and submitt themselves, or no. Wherupon the said Coronell did absolutely yeild him selfe and the fort, with all therein, and craved onely mercy, which it being thought good not to shew them, both for daiunger of themselves yf, being saved, they should afterwardes joyne with the Irishe, and also for terror of the Irish, who were muche imboldned by those forreyne succours, and also put in hope of more ere longe; there was no other way but to make that short ende of them which was made. Therefore most untruly and maliciously doe theis evill tongues backbite and sclaunder the sacred ashes of that most just and honorable personage, whose leaste vertue, of many most exceleent which abounded in his heroicke spirit, they were never able to aspire unto.

Eudoxus

Truly, Irenius: I am right glad to be thus satisfied by you in that I have often heard questioned, and yet was never hable, to choke the mouthe of suche detractors with the certayne knowledge of their sclanderous untruthes: neither is the knowledge thereof impertinent to that which we formerly had in hand, I meane to the through prosecutinge of that sharpe course which yee have sett downe for the bringing under of those rebells of Ulster and Connaght, and preparinge a waye for their perpetuall reformacon, least happely, by any suche synister sugestions of creweltie and to muche bloodshed, all the plott might be overthrowne, and all the cost and labour therein imployed be utterly lost and cast away.

Irenius

Yee say most true; for after that lordes callinge away from thence, the two lorde Justices contynued but a while: of which the one was of mynde, as it seemed, to have contynued in the footinge of his predecessor, but that he was curbed and restrayned. But the other was more myldely disposed, as was meete for his profession, and willinge to have all the woundes of that commonwealth healed and recured, but not with the heed as they shoulde bee. After, when [he] was gone Sir John Parrott, succeedinge, as it were, into another mans harvest, founde an open way to what course he list, the which he bent not to that poynt which the former governors intended, but rather quite contrary, as it were in scorne of the former, and in a vayne vaunt of his owne councells, with that which he was to willfully carried; for he did treade downe and disgrace all the Englishe, and sett up and countenance the Irishe all that he coulde, whether thinkinge thereby to make them more tractable and buxome to the goverment, wherein he thought muche amysse, or prively plotting some other purposes of his owne, as it partly afterwardes appeared. But surely his manner of goverement coulde not be sounde nor holsome for that Realme, beinge so contrary to the former. For it was even as two phesitions shoulde take one sick bodie in hande at two sundry tymes; of which the former woulde minister all thinges meete to purge and keepe under the bodie, the other to pamper and strengthen it sodaynely agayne, whereof what is to be looked for but a most daungerous relapse? That which we now see through his Rule, and the next after him, happened thereunto, beinge noe more daungerously sick then ever before. Therefore by all meanes it must be foreseene and assured, that after once entring into this course of reformacon, there bee afterwardes no remorse or drawinge back for the sight of any suche ruefull obiect as must therupon followe, nor for compassion of their calamities, seeinge that by no other meanes it is possible to recure them, and that theis are not of will, but of verie urgent necessitie.

Eudoxus

Thus farre then you have now proceeded to plant your garrisons, and to direct their services; of the which nevertheles I must needes conceive that there cannott be any certayne direction sett downe, so that they must followe the occasions which shalbe [daylie] offred, and diligently awayted. But, by your leave Irenius, notwithstandinge all this your carefull fore-sight and provision, me thinkes I see an evill lurk unspied, that may chaunce to hazard all the hope of this great service, if it be not verie well looked unto; and that is, the corruption of their captaynes: for though they be placed never so carefully, and their companyes filled never so sufficiently, yet may they (if they list) discarde when they please, and sende away suche as will willingly be ridd of that daungerous and harde service; the which well I wott, is their comon custome to doe, when they are laide in garrison, for then they may better hide their defaultes, then when they are in campe, where they are contynually eyed and noted of all men. Besides, when their pay commeth, they will (as they use) detayne the greatest porcons thereof at their pleasure, by an hundred shiftes that neede not here be named, thorough which they oftentymes deceyve the souldior, abuse the Queene, and greatly hinder the service. So that lett the Queene pay never so fully, the muster-master view them never so diligently, lett the deputie or generall looke never so exactly, yet they can cozen them all. Therefore meseemes it were good, yf at least it be possible, to make some provision for this inconvenience.

Irenius

It will surely be very harde; but the cheifest helpe for prevencon hereof must be the care of the coronell that hath the goverment of all his garison, to have an eye to their alteracon, to knowe the nomber and names of the sick souldiors, and the slayne, to marke and observe their rankes in their dayly risinge forthe to service, by which he cannot easely bee abused, so that he him self be a man of speciall assuraunce and integritie. And therefore good regarde is to be had in the chosinge and appoynting of them. Besides, I would not by any meanes that the captaynes should have the payeinge of their souldiors, but that there shoulde a paymaster be appoynted, of speciall trust, which should pay every man accordinge to his captaynes tickett, and the accompt of the clarke of his bande: for by this meanes the captayne will never seeke to falsify his alteracons, nor to dyminishe his companyes, nor to deceyve his souldiors, when nothinge thereof shalbe for his gayne. This is the manner of the Spanyardes captaynes, who never hath to meddle with his souldiors pay, and indeede scorneth the name as base, to be counted his souldiors pugadore; whereas the contrary amongest us hath brought thinges to so bad a passe, that there is no captayne, but thinkes his band very sufficient, yf he can muster iiixx [three score], and sticks not to say openly, that he is unworthie to have a captayneship, that cannot make it ccccli by the yere, the which they right well verifie by the proofe.

Eudoxus

Truly I thinke this is a verie good meane to avoide that inconvenience of captaynes abusions. But what say you of the coronell? what authoritie thinke you meete to be gyven him? whether will you allow him to protect, to saufe conduct, [and] to have marshall lawe as they are accustomed?

Irenius

Yea verely, but all theis to be lymited with verie straight instructions. As thus for protections, that hee shall have authority after the first proclamation, for the space of twentie dayes, to protect all that shall come unto them, and then to sende us to the Lord Deputie, with their sauf conduct or passe, to be at his disposicon; but so as none of them turne back agayne, beinge once comen, but be presently sent away out of the countrie, unto the next shereff, and so conveyed in sauftie. And likewise for marshall lawes, that to the souldior it be not extended, but by triall formerly made of his cryme, by a Jury of his fellowe souldiors as it ought to be, and not rashly, at the will or displeasure of the coronell, as I have sometyme seene to lightly. And as for other of the rebells that shall light into their handes, that they be well aware of what condicon they be, and what holding they have. For, in the last generall warres there, I knewe many good freeholders executed by marshall lawe, whose land was thereby saved to their heires, which should otherwise have escheated to her Majestie. In all which, the greate discretion and uprightnes of the cornell him self is to be the chiefest stay bothe of all theis doubtes, and for many other difficulties that may in the service happen.

Eudoxus

Your causion is verie good; but now towchinge the arche-Rebell him self, I meane the Earle of Tyrone, if he, in al the tyme of theis warrs, should offer to come in and submytt him self to her Majestie, woulde you not have him recyved, gyvinge good hostages, and sufficient assurance of him self?

Irenius

No, marry; for there is no doubt, but he will offer to come in, as he hath done dyvers tymes alreadie, but it is without any intent of true submission, as the effect hath well showed; neither indeede can he now, if he woulde, come in at all, nor gyve that assurance of him self that shoulde be meete, for being, as he is, very subtill headed, seinge him self now so farr engaged in this bad action, can you thinke that by his submission he can purchase to him self any sauftie, but that hereafter, when thinges shalbe quieted, theis his villanyes wilbe ever remembered? and whensoever he shall treade awry (as needes the most righteous must some tymes) advantage wilbe taken thereof, as a breache of his pardon, and he brought to a reconinge for all former matters: besides, how harde it is for him now to frame him selfe to subjection, that havinge once sett before his eyes the hope of a kingdome, hath therunto founde not onely encoragement from the greatest Kinge of Christendome, but also founde great fayntnes in her Majesties withstandinge [him], whereby he is animated to thinke that his power is to defende him, and offende further then he had done, when so ever he please, lett every reasonable man judge. But yf he him selfe should come in, and leave all other his accomplices without, as Adonel, Macmahon, Mackuyre, and the rest, he must needes thinke that then, even they will eare longe cut his throate, which having drawen them all into this occasion, now in the mydest of their trouble gyveth them the slipp; wherby he must needes perceyve how impossible it is for him to submytt himselfe. But yet if he woulde so doe, can he gyve any assurance of his good obedience? For how weake holde there is by hostages, hath to often been proved, and that which is spoken of takinge Shan Oneale's sonnes from him, and setting them up against him, is a very perilous councell, and not by any meanes to be put in proof; for were they lett forth and coulde overthrowe them, or what assurance can be had of them? It wilbe like the tale in Æsope of the wild horse, who, havinge enmytie against the Stagg, came to a man to desire his aide against his enemye, who yeilding therunto mounted upon his back, and so following the Stagg ere long slew him, but then when the horse woulde have him alight, he refused, but kept him ever after in his service and subjection. Suche, I doubt woulde be the prose of Shane Oneale's sonnes. Therefore it is most daungerous to attempt any suche plott, for even that very manner of plott, was the meanes by which this traytorous Earle is now made great: for when as the last Oneale, called Turlagh Lenagh, began to stand upon some ticle termes, this fellow, then called Baron of Dungannon, was sett up (as it were) to beard him, and countenaunced and strenghened by the Queene so farr, as that he is now hable to kepe her self play: muche like unto a gamester which havinge lost all, borroweth of his next fellowe gamester that is the most wynner, somewhat to maynetayne play, which he, fetting unto him agayne, shortly therby wynneth all from the wynner.

Eudoxus

Was this rebell then sett up at first by the Quene (as you saie), and now become so unduetifull?

Irenius

He was I assure you the [most] outcast of all the Oneales then, and lifted up by her Majestie out of the dust, to that he hath now wrought him selfe unto; and now he playeth like the frozen snake, who beinge for compassion relieved by the husbandman, soone after he was warme began to hisse, and threaten danger even to him and his.

Eudoxus

He surely then deserveth the ponishment of the snake, and shoulde worthely be hewed to peeces. But yf you like not the setting Shane Oneale's sonnes against him, what say you then to that advise which I hearde was gyven by some, to drawe in the Scotts, to serve against him? how like you that advise?

Irenius

Much worse then the former; for who that is experienced in those partes and knoweth not that the Oneales are neerely alied unto the Mac Oneales of Scotland, and to the Earle of Argill, from whom they use to have all ther succors of those Scottes and Redshanks? Besides, all these Scottes are, through long continuance, intermingled and alied to all the inhabitants of the North; so as ther is no hope they will ever be wrought to serve faithfully against ther ould frends and kinsmen; And if they would, how when the warrs are finished and they have over throwen him, shall they themselves be put out? Do not all know, that the Scotts were the first inhabitants of all the North, and that those which are now called North Irish were indede very Scotts, which challing the ancient inheritance and dominion of that country to be their owne anciently. This were then but to leape out of the pan into the fier; for the chiefest caveat and provision in the reformacon of the North must be to keepe out the Scotts.

Eudoxus

Indede, I remember that in your discours of the first peopling of Ireland, you shewed that the Scithian or Scotts were the first that sat downe in the North, wherby it semes they may challeng some right therin. How comes it then that Oneale claimes the dominion therof, and this Earle of Tirone saith the right is in him? I pray you resolve me herin; for it is very needefull to be knowne, and maketh most unto the right of the war against him, whos successe useth commonly to be according to the justnes of the caus, for which it is made: for if Tiron have any right in that Seignory me seemes it should be wrong to thrust him out: or if (as I remember you sayd in the beginning) that Oneale, when he acknowleged the King of England for his liege Lord and Soveraigne did, as he allegeth, reserve in the same commission all his seigniories and rights unto him self, it should be accoumpted unjust to thrust him out of the same?

Irenius

For the right of Onele in the Seigniory of the North, it is surely none at all: for besides that the Kings of England conquered all the realme, and therby invested all the right of that land to themselves and ther heires and successours for ever, so as nothing was left in Onele but what he received back from them, Onele himself never had any auncient Seigniory in that country, but what by usurpation and incrochment, after the death of the Duke of Clarence, he got upon the English, whos lands and possessions being formerly wasted by the Scotts, under the leading of Edward le Bruce, as I formerly declared unto you, he eftesones entred into, and sithence hath wrongfully detayned, through the others occupations and greate affaires which the Kings of England sone after fell into here at home, so as they could not intend to the recovery of that country of the North, nor restrayning the insolency of Oneale; who, finding none now to withstand him in that desolation, made himself Lord of thos few poeple that remained there, upon whom ever sithence he hath contenewed the first usurped power, and nowe exacteth and extorteth upon all men what he list: soe that nowe to subdue or expell an usurper, should be no unjust enterprize nor wrongfull war, but a restitution of an auncient right unto the croune of England, from whence they were most unjustly expelled and long kept out.

Eudoxus

I am very glad herein to be thus satisfyed by you, that I may the better satisfy them whom I have often heard to obiect these doubts, and slaunderously to barck at the courses that are held against that traiterous Earle and his adherence. But now that you [have] thus settled your service for Ulster and Connaught, I would be glad to heare your opinion for the prosecuting of Feagh McHugh, who being but a base villaine, and of himself of no power, yet so continually troubleth that state, notwithstanding that he lyeth under ther nose, that I disdaine his bould arrogancy, and thinck it to be the greatest indignity to the Quene that may be, to suffer such a caytiffe play such reakes, and by his ensample not onely to give hart and incoragement to all such bold rebells, but also to yeild the succor and refuge against her Majestie, whensoever they fly into his Comerick: wherfore I would first wish, befoore you enter into your plot of service against him, that you should lay open by what means he, being so base, first lifted him self up to this dangerous greatnesse and how he mayteyneth his part against the Quene and her power, notwithstanding all that hath bin don and attempted ageinst him. And whether also hee have any pretence of right in the lands he houldeth, or in the warrs that he maketh for the same?

Irenius

I will so, at your pleasure, and since you desire to know his beginning, I will not only discover the beginning of his private house, but also the originall of all his Sept of the Birnes and Tooles, so far as I have learned the same from some of them selves, and gathered the rest by reading: This poeple of the Birnes and Tooles (as before I shewed you my conjecture) discended from the auncient Britons, which first inhabited all those eastern parts of Ireland, as ther names do betoken; for Brin in the Britons language signifieth wooddy, and Toll hilly, which names, it semeth, they tooke of the country which they inhabited, which is all very mountaine and wooddy. In the which it semeth that ever sithence the comming in of the English with Dermonigile, they have continewed: Whether that ther country being so rude and mountaynous was of them despised, and thought [un]woorthy the inhabiting, or that they were receaved to grace by them, and suffred to injoy ther lands as unfit for any other, yet it semeth that in some places of the same, they did put foote, and fortifyed with sundry castles, of which the ruins there do only now remayne, since which time they are growne to that strength, that they are able to lift up hand against all the estate; and now lately, through the boldnesse and late good successe of this, Feagh Mc Hugh, they are so far imboldned, that they threaten perill even to Dublin, over whos neck they continewally hang. But touching your demand of these Feaghs right unto that countrey, or the seignory which he claimes therin, it is most vaine and arrogant. For this you cannot be ignorant of, that it was part of that which was given in inheritance by Dermot McMurrogh, Kinge of Leinster, to Strangbow with his daughter, and which Strangbowe gave over to the King and his heires, so as the right is absolutely now in her Majestie; and if it were not, yet could it not be in this Feagh, but in Obrin, which is the auncient Lord of all that countrey; for he and his auncestours were but followers unto Obrin, and his grandfather, Shane Mac Turlogh, was a man of meanest regard among them, neither having wealth nor power. But his sonn Hugh Mac Shane, the father of this Feagh, first began to lift up his head, and through the strength and great fatnesse of Glan-Malor, which adioyneth unto his house of Ballenecan, drew unto him many theeves and outlawes, which fled unto the succor of the glenn, as to a Sanctuary, and brought unto him part of the spoyle of all the country, through which he grew strong, and in short space getting to him self a great name therby amongest the Irish, in whos footing this his sonn continewing hath, through many unhappy occasions, increased his name, and the opinion of his greatnesse, so that now he is become a dangerous enemy to deale withall.

Eudoxus

Sure, I commend him, that being of him self of so bace as condicon, hath through his owne hardenesse lifted himself to the height that he now dare front princes, and make tearmes with great potentates; the which as it is honorable to him, so it is to them most dsgracefull, to be bearded of such a base varlet, that being of late growne out of the dunghill beginneth now to overcrow so high mountaines, and make him self great protector of all outlawes and rebells that will repayre unto him. But do you thincke that he is now so dangerous an enemy as he is counted, or that it is so hard to take him doune as some suppose?

Irenius

No verelye, there is no great reckoninge to bee made of him; for hadd he ever beene taken in hand, when the rest of the Realme, or at least the parts adjoyninge, hadd beene quiet, as the honorable gentleman that nowe governeth there, I meane Sir Willyam Russell, gave a notable attempte thereunto, and hadd worthylie performed yt, yf his course hadd not bene crossed unhappelye, he could not have stood thre moneths, nor ever have looked up against a very meane power: but now all the parts about him being up in a madding moode, as the Mores in Lease, the Cavanaghes in the county of Wexford, and some of the Butlers in the county of Kilkenny, they all flock unto him, and draw unto his country, as to a strong hould where they thinck to be safe from all that prosecute them: And from thence they do at ther pleasures breake out into all the borders adjoyning, which are well poepled countries, as the countys of Dublin, of Kildare, of Carlough, of Kilkenny, of Wexford, with the spoyles whereof they victell and strengthen them selves, which should in short time be starved, and sore pined; so that what he is of him self you may hereby perceive.

Eudoxus

Then, by so much as I gather out of your speach, the next way to end the warrs with him, and to roote him quite out, should be to keepe him from invading of thos countries adjoyning, which as I suppose, is to be donn, by drawing all the inhabitants of thos next borders away, and leaving them utterly wast, or by planting garisons upon all thos frontieres about him, that, when he shall breake forth, may set upon him and shorten his retourn.

Irenius

You conceive very rightly, Eudoxus, but for the dispoepling and driving away all the inhabitants from the countries about him, which ye speake of, should be great confusion and trouble, aswell for the unwillingnesse of them to leave ther possessopns, as also for placing and providing for them in other countries, me seemes, the better course should be by planting of garrisons about him, the which, when soever he shall looke forth, or be drawne out with desire of the spoyle of thos borders, or for necessity of victuall, shall be alwayes ready to intercept his going or comming.

Eudoxus

Where then do you wish these garrisons to be planted, that they may serve best against him; and how many in every garison?

Irenius

I my self, by reason that, as I told you, I am no marsiall man, I will not take upon me to direct so dangerous affaires, but only as I understand by the purposes and plotts, which the Lord Grey who was well experienced in that service, against him did lay doune: to the performance whereof he only required a 1000. men to be layd in 4. garrisons: that is, at Ballincore, 200 footemen and 50. hors, which should shut him out of his great glenn, whereto he so much trusteth; at Knocklough 200. footemen and 50. hors, to answer the county of Carlo; at Arclo or Wicklo 200 footemen and 50 horsemen, to defend all that side towards the sea; in Shelalagh 100 footemen which should cut him from the Cavernaghes, and the county of Wexford; and about the 3 castles 50. horsmen, which should defend all the county of Dublin; and 100 footemen at Talbotts toune, which should keepe him from breaking into the county of Kildare, and be alwayes on his neck on that side: the which garrisons, so lade, will so busy him, that he shall never rest at home, nor stirr forth abrode but he shall be had; as for his Creete they can not be above ground, but they must needes fall into ther hands or sterve, for he hath no fastnesse nor refuge for them, or his partakers of the Mores, Butlers, and Cavanaghes. They will sone leave him, when they see his fastnesse and strong places thus taken from him.

Eudoxus

Surely this semeth a plot of great reason, and small difficulty, which promiseth hope of a short end. But what speciall directions will you set doune for the services and risings out of thes garrisons?

Irenius

None other than the present occasions shall minister unto them, and as by good spialls, whereof ther they cannot want store, they shall be drawne coninually upon him, so as one of them shall be stil upon him, and sometimes all at one instant bayte him. And this I assure my self, will demand no long time, but will be all finished in the space of one yere; which how small a thing it is, unto the eternall quietnesse which shal therby be purchased to the realme, and the great good which should grow to her Majestie, should me thinck readily draw on her Highnesse to the undertaking of the enterprise.

Eudoxus

You have very well me semes, Irenius, plotted a course for the atcheiving of thes warrs now in Ireland, which seme to ask no long time, nor great charg, so as th'effecting thereof be committed to men of some trust, and some experience, aswell in the sayd country as in the manner of thos services; for if it be left in the hands of such raw captaines as are usually sent out of England, being thereto preferred only by frendship, and not chosen by sifficiensy, it will sone fall to the ground.

Irenius

Therfore it were meete me thincks that such captaines onely were hereto imployed, as have fomerly served in that country, and bin at least lieftenants unto other captaines there. For otherwise, being brought and transferred from other services abroade, as in France, in Spaine, and in the Low-countries, though they be of good experience in those, and have never so well deserved, yet in these they will be new to seeke, and, before they have gathered experience, they shall buy it with great losse to her Majestie, either by hazarding of ther companies, through ignorance of the places, and manner of the Irish services, or by losing a great part of the time which is required hereunto, being but short, in which it might be finished, before they have almost taken out a new lesson, or can tell what is to be donn.

Eudox

You are no good frend to new captaines it semes, Irenius, that you bar them from the credit of this service: but to say truth, me thincks it were mete, that any one, before he come to be a captaine, should have bin a soldier; for, Parere qui nescit, nescit imperare. And besides, ther is great wrong done to the ould soldier, who from all means of advancement ( which is due unto him) is cut of, by shuffling in thes new cutting captaines into ther places, for which he hath long served, and perhaps better deserved. But now thos that have thus as I suppose finished all the war, and brought all things to that low eb which you speake [of], what course will you take for the bringing in of that reformation which you intend, and recovering all thinges from this dissolute estate, in which mee thincks I behould them now left, unto that perfect establishment and new commonwealth which you have conceived, of which so great good may redoune to her Majestie, and an assured peace be confirmed? for that is that wherunto we are now to looke, and do greatly long for, being long since made weary with the huge charg which you have lade upon us, and with the strong indurance of so many complaints, so many delayes, so many doubts and dangers, as will hereof I know well, arise: unto the which before you come, it were mete me thincks that you should take some order for the souldier, which is now first to be discharged and disposed of, some way; the which if you do not well fore-see, may grow to a great inconvenience, as all this that we suppose you have quit us from, by the loose leaving of so many thousand souldiers, which from hence forth will be unfit for any labor or other trade, but must either seke service and imployment abroade, which may be dangerous, or ells will perhaps imploy them selves here at home, as may bee discomodious.

Irenius

You say very true; and it is a thing much misliked in this our common-wealth that no better cours is taken for such as have bin imployed once in service, but that retourning, whether maymed, and so unable to labor, or otherwise, though hole and sound, yet afterward unwilling to worke, or rather willing to make worke for the hang-man. But that nedeth an other consideration; but to this that we have now in hand, it is far from my meaning to leave the souldier so at randome, or to leave that wast realme so weake and destitute of strength, which may both defend it against others that might seke to set upon it, and also kepe it from that relaps which I before did forecast. For it is one speciall good of this plot which I would devise, that six thousand souldiers of those whom I have now imployed in that service, and made throughly acquainted both with the state of the country, and manners of the people, should henceforth be still continewed, and for ever mayntayned of the country, without any charg to her Majestie; and the rest that either are ould, and unable to serve longer, or willing to fall to thrifte, (as I have sene many souldiers after ther service to prove very good husbands,) should bee placed in parts of the lands by them woonn, at such rate, or rather better then others, to whom the same shall be let.

Eudoxus

Is it possible Irenius? can ther be any such means devised that so many men should be kept still for her Majesties service without any charg to her Majestie at all? Surely this were an exceeding great good, both to her Heighnesse to have so many ould souldiers alwayes ready at call, to what purpose soever she list to imploy them, and also to have that land therby so strengthned, that it shall neither feare any forreigne invasion, nor practise, which the Irish shall ever attempt, but shall kepe them under in continewall awe and firme obedience.

Irenius

It is so indeede. And yet this truly I do not take to be any matter of great difficulty, as I thinck it will also sone appere unto you. And first we will speake of the North part, for that the same is of most weight and importance. So sone as it shall appere that the enemy is brought doune, and the stoute rebell either cut of, or driven to that wretchednesse that he is no longer able to hould up hand, but will come into any condicions, which I assure my self will be before the end of the second Winter, I wish that there be a generall proclamation made, that whatsoever outlawes will frely come in, and submit themselves to her Majesties mercy, shall have liberty so to do, where they shall either find that grace they desier, or retourn againe in safety: upon which it is likely that so many as survive, will come in to sue for grace, of which who so are thought mete for subjection, and fit to be brought to good, may be receaved, or ells all of them, for I thinck that all will be but a very few; upon condicon and assurance that they will submit themselves absolutely to her Majesties ordinance for them, by which they shall be assured of life and liberty, and be onely tied to such condicons as shall bee thought by her mete for contayning them ever after in due obedience. To the which condicons I nothing doubt but that they will all most readily, and upon ther knees submit them selves, by the proofe of that which I saw in Mounster. For upon the like proclamation ther, they all came in tagge and ragge, and when as afterwards many of them were denyed to be received, they bad them doe with them what wolde, for they would not by noe meanes retorne, nor goe forth. For in that case who will not accept almost of any conditions, rather then dye of hunger and miserye?

Eudoxus

It is very likely so. But what then is the ordinance, and what be the condicions which you will purpose unto them, that shall reserve unto them an assurance of lyfe and libertie?

Irenius

Soe soone as they have given the best assurance of them selves which may be required, which must bee I suppose some of their principall men to remaine in hostage one of another, and some other for the rest, for other suretye I reckon of none that may bynde them, neyther of wyfe, neyther of children, synce then perhappes thay wold gladly be rydd of both from the famine; I would have them first unarmed utterly, and stript quite of all there warlike weapons, and then, these conditions sett downe and made knowne unto them; that thay shalbe brought and removed with such creete as they have, into Lympster, wher thay shalbe placed, and have land given them to occupy and to lyve uppon, in such sorte as shalbecome good subjectes, to labour thenceforth for there lyvinge, and to apply them selves unto honest trades of Civility as thay shall everye one be founde meete and able for.

Eudoxus

Where then, a Gods name, will you place them in Lynster? or will you finde out any new land ther for them that is yet unknowen?

Irenius

Noe, I will place them in all the country of the Birnes and Tooles, which Feagh McHugh hath, and in all the landes of the Cavanaghes, which are now in rebellion, and all the landes which will fall to hir Majestie there-aboute, which I knowe to be very spacious and large yeanough to contayne them, being very nere twenty or thirty myles wide.

Eudoxus

But what then will ye doe with all the Birnes, the Tooles, and the Cavanaghes, and all those that now are joined with them?

Irenius

At the same very tyme, and in the same manner that I make that proclamation to them of Ulster, will I alsoe have yt made to these; and uppon ther submission therunto, I will take lyke assurance of them as of thother. After which I will translate all that remaine of them unto the places of the other in Ulster, with there Creete, and what els they have left them, the which I will cause to be devided amongest them in some meete sorte, as each may therby have somewhat to sustayne him selfe a while withall, untill, by his further travell and labor of the yearth, he shalbe able to provide himselfe better.

Eudoxus

But will you then give the lande frely unto them, and make them heires of the former Rebells? soe may you perhapps make the heires also of their former villanies and disorders; or how els will you dyspose of them?

Irenius

Not so; but all the landes I will give unto Englishmen whom I will have drawne thither, whoe shall have the same with such estates as shalbe thought meete, and for such rente as shal eft-sones bee rated: under every of those English men will I place some of those Irish to be the tennantes for a certayne rent, accordinge to the quantyty of such lande as every man shall have allotted unto him, and shalbe founde able to meete, wherin this speial regard shalbe hadd, that in noe place under any lande lorde there shall remaine of them planted together, but dyspersed wide frome there acquaintances, and scattered far abroad thorough all the country: for that is the evill which I nowe fynde in all Irelande, that the Irish dwell altogether by there septes, and severall nacions, so as they may practise or conspire what they will; wheras if there were English shedd amongest them and placed over them, thay should not bee able once to styrr or murmur, but that yt should be knowne, and thay shortned accordynge to there demerite.

Eudoxus

Ye have good reason; but what rating of rentes meane you? to what end doe you purpose the same?

Irenius

My purpose is to rate the rente of all those landes of her Majestie in such sorte, unto those Englishmen as shall take them, as thay may be well able to lyve thereuppon, yeiding hir Majestie a reasonable cheiferie, and also give a competent maintenance unto the garrisons, which shall ther be left amongest them; for these soldiors (as I told you) remayning of the former garrisons, I cast to mantaine uppon the rent of those landes which shalbe escheated, and to have them devided through all Ireland in such places as shalbe thought most convenient, and occasion may require. And this was the course of the Romaines observed in the conquest of England, for thay planted of ther legions in all places convenient, the which thay caused the country to mantayne, cuttinge uppon every porcion of land a reasonable rente, which they called Romestot, the which might nott surcharge the tennante or freholder, and defray the pay of the garrison: and this hath beene alwais observed in all princes in all countries to them newly subdued, to sett garrisons amongest them to contayne them in dutye whose burden they made them to beare; and the want of this ordinaunce in the first conquest of Ireland by Henry the second, was the cause of soe shorte decay of that goverment, and the quicke recovery againe of the Irish. Therfore by all meanes it is to be provided for. And this is it that I would blame, if it should not misbecom me, in the late plantying of Munster, that noe care was had of this ordinaunce, nor any strenth of a garrison provided for, by a certayn alowance out of all the sayd landes, but only the present profit loked unto, and the saf continewance thereof ever herafter neglected.

Eudoxus

But ther is a band of soldioures layed in Mounster, to the mayntenance of which, what odds is there whethere the Quene, receiving the rent of the countrye, doe give pay at hir pleasure, or that ther be a settled allowance appoynted unto them out of ther landes there?

Irenius

There is great oddes, for nowe that sayd rent of the country is not usually applied to the pay of the soldyars, but it is, (every other occasion comming betwene,) converted to other uses, and the soldier in times of peace discharged and neglected as unnecessary; whereas if the sayd rent were appoynted and ordayned by an establishment to this end only, it should not bee turned to any other; nor in troublous times, upon every occasion, her Majestie be so trobled with sendinge over newe soldiers as she now is, nor the country ever should dare to mutine, having still the soldiar in ther necke, nor any forraine enymy dare to invade, knowinge ther so stronge a garrison allwais to receave him.

Eudoxus

Sith then you thinkee this Romescott of the pay of the soldier uppon the lande to be both the redyest way to the soldier, and lesse troblesome to hir Majestie, tell us, I pray you, how ye wold have the sayd landes rated, that both a rente may rise therout unto the Queene, and also the souldiours receive pay, which (me seemes) wilbe harde?

Irenius

First, we are to consider how much lande there is in all Ulster, that according to the quantitye thereof we may cesse the sayd rente and alowance yssuing thereout. Ulster, as the auncient recordes of that realme doe testifie, doeth contayne Nine Thousand plough landes, every of which plowe landes contayneth six score acres, after the rate of xxi. foot to every pearch of the sayd acre, which amounteth in the whole to xviij[000]l, besides 6s. 8d. chiefrie out of every plow-land. But becuase the county of Louth, being a parte of Ulster, and contayning in yt vij. h. and xij. plow-landes, is not wholy to escheat unto her Majestie as the rest, thay having in all these warrs continewed for the most parte duetyfull, though otherwise a great parte therof is now under the rebels, ther is an abatement to be made out of iiij h. or v h. plowe landes, as I estimat the same, the which are not to pay the whole yearly rente of xl [vis. 8d.] out of every plow land, like as the escheated landes doe, but yet shall pay for ther composition of cesse towardes the maintenance of the soldier xxs. out of every plow lande: soe as ther is to be deducted out of the former some iij h. yearly, the which may neverthelesse be supplied by the rent of the fyshings, which are exceeding great in Ulster, and alsoe by an increase of rente in the best landes, and those that lye in the best places nere the sea-cost. The which xviii [thousand] pounds will defray the entertaynment of xv. hundred soldyers, with some overplus toward the pay of the victualls which are to be imployed in victualing of these garrisons.

Eudoxus

So then, belike,ye meane to leave xvc. [1500] soldyers in garrison for Ulster, to be payed principally out of the rent of those landes which shall there escheat unto her Majestie. The which, wher I pray you, will you have them garrisoned?

Irenius

I will have them devided into 3 parts; that is, vc. [500] in every garrison, the which I will have to remayne in thre of the said places where they were before appoynted; to weete, v.c at Straban and about Loghfoyle, and soe as thay may hold all the passages of that parte of the country, and some of them be put in wardes, uppon all the straights thereabouts, which I know to be such, as may stope all passages into the country one that side; and some of them alsoe upon the Bann, up towardes Logh Sidney, as I formerly directed. Also other v.c. at the fort uppon Logh-earne, and wardes taken out of them which shalbe layde at Farmannagh, at Belicke, at Ballishannon, and on all the straightes towardes Connagh, the which I knowe doe so strongly commaunde all the passages that way, as that none cann passe from Ulster into Connaught, without ther leave. The last v.c. shall also remaine in their forte in Monoghan, and some of them be drawen into wardes, to kepe the keyes of all that country, both downwardes, and also towardes Orlyes countrie, and the pale; as some at Eniskilline, some at Belterbert, some at the Blacke forte, and so alonge that river, as I formerly showed in the first plantyng of them. And moreover at every of these fortes, I wold have the seate of a towne layed forth and incompassed, in which I wold wish that there should inhabitants of all sortes, as merchantes, artificeres, and husbanmen, to be placed, to whome ther shold be charters and franchises graunted to incorporat them. The which, as it wilbe no matter of difficulty toe draw out of England persones which wold very gladly be so placed, so would it in short space turne those partes to great commodity, and bring ere longe to her Majestie much profit; for those places are fite for trade and traffique, having most convenient outgates by [rivers] to the sea, and ingates to the richest partes of the lande, that they wold sone bee enriched, and mightily enlarged, for the very seating of the garrisons by them, besides, the safty and assurance which they shall worke unto them, will alsoe draw thither store of people and trades as I have sene ensampled at Mariburgh and Phillipstowne in Leinstor, wher by reason of those two fortes, though ther were but smale wardes left in them, there are two good townes now growen, which are the greatest stay of both those two countries.

Eudoxus

Indeed me semes 3 such townes, as ye say, would doe very well in those places with the garrisons, and in shorte space wold be so augmented, as thay wold be able with little [helpe] to inwall them selves strongley: but, for the plantyng of all the rest of the country, what order will yee take?

Irenius

What other then as I sayd to bringe people out of England, which should inhabit the same; whereunto though, I doubt not, but great troupes would be ready to runn, yet for that in such cases, the worst and most decayed men are most ready to remove, I would wishe them rather to be chosen out of all partes of this realme, either by discresion of wise men therunto appointed, or by lott, or by the drumme, as was the ould use in sending forth of Collinies, or such other good meanes as shall in ther wisedome be thought metest. Amongst the cheife of which I wold have the lande set into segniories, in such sort as yt is now in Mounster, and devided into hundredes and parishes, or wardes, as it is in England, and layed out into sheires as yt was aunciently; vizt. the countie of Downe, the countye of Antrim, the countie of Lowth, the countye of Armagh, the countie of Cavan, the countye of Colrane, the countie of Monaghan, the countye of Tiron, the countie of Fermannagh, the countie of Donegall, being in all 10. Over all which I wish a Lord President and a Counsell to bee placed, which may keepe them afterwardes in awe and obedience, and minister unto them justic and equity.

Eudoxus

Thus I see the whole purpose of your plott for Ulster, and now I desire to heare your like opinion for Cannagh.

Irenius

By that which I have already sayd of Ulster, yee may gather my opinion for Cannagh, beinge very answereable unto the former. But for that the landes, which shall escheat unto hir Majestie, are not so intyrelie togeather as that they cann be accounted unto one some, it nedeth that they be considered severally. The province of Cannagh contayneth in the whole, as appeareth by recorde at Dubline, vii thousand and twoe hundred plowe landes of the former measure, and is of late devided into six sheires or countyes: the countie of Clare, the countye of Letrim, the county of Roscaman, the county of Galway, the county of Maio, the county of Sligoh. Of the which, all the county of Slygoh, all the county of Maio, the most parte of the countie of Lietrim, a greate parte of the county of Galway, and some of the county of Clare, is lyke to escheate unto hir Majestie for the rebellion of there present possessors. The which two counties of Sligoh and Maio are supposed to contayne almost iij [thousand] plowe landes, the rate wherof, ratablie to the former, I valewe almost at vj [thousand] li. p. ann. The countie of Roscomon, savinge what pertayneth to the howse of Roscomon and some fewe other English there lately seted, is all out, and therfore it is wholy lykwise to escheat to her Majestie, savinge those porcons of the English inhabitantes; and even those English doe, as I understand by them, pay as much rente to hir Majestie as is set uppon those in Ulster, countyng ther composition money therwithall, so as it may runn all into one reconinge with the former two countyes: So that this countye of Roscomon, contayning xij.c. plowe landes, as yt is accounted, amounteth to ij [thousand] iiijc. poundes by the yeare, which with the former twoe countyes rent maketh about viij [thousand] li. for the former wanted somwhat. But what the escheated landes of the countyes of Galway and Lietrim will rise unto is yet uncertayne to define, till survay thereof be made, for that those landes are intermingled with the Earle Clanricard, and other [lands]; but it is thought that thay be thone halfe of both those countyes, soe as thay may bee counted to the valewe of one thousande plow-landes (for so many the least county of them comprehendeth,) which maketh two thousand poundes more, that is, in all, x or xi thowsand poundes. Thother two counties must remaine till ther escheates appeare, the which lettyng passe as yet unknowne, yet thus much is knowne to be accounted for certayne, that the composition of these twoe counties, beinge rated at xxs. everye plowe lande, will amounte to above xiij [thousand] li. more: all which being layd togeather to the former, may be reasonably estimated to rise unto xiij [thousand] poundes, the which some, togeather with the rest of the escheated landes in the twoe last countyes, which cannot yet be valued (beinge, as I doubt not, lesse than a thowsand poundes more) will yeild largely unto a thowsand men and ther victuallers, and a thowsand pounds over towards the Governor.

Eudoxus

Ye have me thinckes, made but an estimate of those lands of Connaght even at a very venter, so as it should be harde to build any certaintye of charge to be raised uppon the same.

Irenius

Not altogeather yet uppon uncertantyes; for thus much may easily appeare unto you for certayne, as the composition money of every plowelande amounteth unto; for this I would have you principally understande, that my purpose is to rate all the landes in Irelande at xxs. every plowlande, for there composition towardes the garrison. The which I knowe, in regard of being feed from all other charges whatsoever, wilbe redyly and most gladly yeilded unto. Soe that there beinge in all Ireland (as appeareth by there old rentes) 43920 plowelandes, the same shall amounte to the somme likewise of 43920 poundes, and the rest to be reared of thescheated landes which fall to hir Majesty in the said provinces of Ulster, Connoght, and that parte of Leinster under the rebels; for Mounster wee deale not withall.

Eudoxus

But tell me this, by the way, doe you then lay composition uppon thescheated landes as you doe uppon the rest? for soe me thinckes, you recken all togeather. And that sure were to much to pay vij nobles out of every plowe lande, and composition money besides, that is xxs. out of every plowelande.

Irenius

Noe, you mistake me; I put onely vij nobles rent and composition both uppon every plowe lande escheated, that is xls. for composicon, and vjs. vijd. for cheifery to hir Majestie.

Eudoxus

I doe now conceiue you; procede then I pray you, to the appointing of your garrisons in Cannaght, and shew us both howe many and where you would have them placed.

Irenius

I wold have one thosand laide in Cannaght in two garrisons; namely, v.c. in the county of Maio, about Clan McCostulaghes, which shall kepe Mayo and the Burckes of McWilliam Enter: thother v.c. in the county of Clanricarde, about Garrandough, that thay may contayne the [Conhors] and the {⬌} Burkes ther, the Kellies and Macknyars with all them about; for that garrison which I formerly placed at Lougharne will serve for all occasions in the county of Sligah, Being nere adjoyning therunto, so as in one nighets march they may be allmost in any place thereof when need shall requier them. And like as in the former places of garrison in Ulster, I wished iij corporat townes to be planted, which under the safegarde of the strenth shall dwell and trade safely with all the country about them, soe would I alsoe wish to be in this of Connaght; and that besides, there were another established at Athlone, with a convenient warde in the castle there for ther defence.

Eudoxus

What should that need, seing that the Governor of Cannagh useth to ly there alwaies, whose presence wilbe a defence to all that towneship.

Irenius

I know he doth soe, but that is much to be dysliked that the Governor should lye so farre of, in the remotest place of all the province, wheras it were meter that he should be continually abidinge in the middest of his charge, that he might both looke out alike into all places of his goverment, and also be soone at hande in any place, where occasion shall demaunde him; for the presence of the Governor is (as you sayd) a great stay and brydle vnto them that are ill disposed: like as I see it is well observed in Mounster, wher the dayly good thereof is continually apparant; and, for this cause alsoe doe I greatly mislike the lorde Deputies seating at Dubline, being the outest corner in the realme, and left neding the awe of his presence; wheras, me seemes it were fitter, since his proper care is of Leinster, though he hath care of all besides generally, that he should seat himselfe about Athie, or therabouts, uppon the skirt of that unquiet contry, so as that he might sit, as it were, at the very mayne mast of the shipp, whenc he might easly overlooke and some tymes overreach the Mores, the Butlers, the Dempses, the Ketines, the Conners, Ocarrell, Omoloy, and all that heape of Irish nations which ther ly hudled togeather without any to over-rule them, or contayne them in dutye. For the Irish man, I assure you, feares the goverment noe longer then he is within sight or reach.

Eudoxus

Surely me thinckes herin you observe a matter of much importance, more then I have heard ever noted; but sure that semes so expedient, as that I wonder it hath beene hertofore over omitted; but I suppose the instance of the cittizens of Dublin is the greatest let there.

Irenius

Truly, then it ought not so to bee; for noe cau[s]e have they to feare that it wilbe any hindrance for them; for Dubline wilbe still, as it is, the key of all passages and transportacons out of England thither, to noe lesse profit of those citizens then it now is, and besides other places will herby receave some benefytt. But let us now, I pray you, come to Lynster, in the whcih I wold wish the same course to be observed as in Ulster.

Eudoxus

You meane for the leavinge of the garrisons in there fortes, and for planting of English in all those countryes bewene the county of Dubline and the county of Wexforde; but thosw wast wild places, I thinke, when thay are woone unto her Majestie, that ther is none that wilbe hasty to seek to inhabite.

Irenius

Yes, ynough, I warrante, for though the whole tracte of the countrie bee mountaine and wodie, yet there are manie goodlie vallies amongst them, fytt for fayre habytation, to which those mountaines adjoyned wilbe a greate increase of pasturage; for that countrie is a verie great soyle of cattell, and verie fitt for breed: as for corne it is nothing naturall, save onlie for barlie and oates, and some places for rye, and therfore the larger peniworth may be allowed vnto them, though other wyse the wyldnes of the mountaine pasturage doe recompence the badnes of the soile, soe as I doubt not but it will finde inhabitants and undertakers enough.

Eudoxus

How much then doe you thinke that all those landes which Pheagh McHugh holdeth under him may amount unto, and what rent may be reared therout to the mayntenance of the garrisons that shalbe layd there?

Irenius

Truly, it is ympossible by aime to tell yt, and as for experience and knowledge, I doe not thinke that there was ever any of the particulars thereof, but yet I will, if it please you, gesse therat, uppon grounde only of there judgment which have formerly devided all that countrye into twoe sheires or countyes, namely the county of Wickloe, and the county of Fernes: the which twoe I see noe cause but thay should holy escheat to her Majesty, all but the barrony of Arclo which is the Earle of Ormwoodes auncient inheritance, and hath ever bene in his possession; for all the whole lande is the Quenes, unlesse there be some graunt of any parte therof to be showed from hir Majestie: as I thinke there is only of New Castle to Sir Henry Harrington, and of the castle of Fernes to Sir Thomas Masterson, the rest, being almost thirty miles over, I doe suppose canne contayne noe lesse then two thousande plowelandes, which I will estimat at iiij [thousand] li. rent, by the yeare. The rest of Leinster, being vij countyes, to weete, the countye of Dubline, Killdare, Catherlogh, Wexford, Kilkenye, the Kinges and the Queenes countye, doe containe in them 7400. plowelandes, which amounteth to so many poundes for composition to the garrison, that makes in the whole xi [thousand] iiijc. l., the which some will yeild pay unto a thowsand souldiars, little wantynge, which may be supplied out of other landes of the Cavenaghes, which are to be escheated to her Majestie for rebellione of ther possessions, though otherwise indeed they be of hir owne auncient demaine.

Eudoxus

It is a great reason. But tell us now where you wold wish those garrisons to be laied, whether alltogeather, or to be dyspersed in sundry places of the country?

Irenius

Mary, in sundry places, to weete, in this forte, or much the like as may be better advised, for cc. in a place I doe thinke to be enough for the safegarde of the countrie, and kepinge under all sudden upstartes, that shall seeke to trouble the peace thereof: therfore I wishe [200.] to be layede at Ballinocros for the kepinge of all bade persons from Glammalour, and all the fastenes thereaboutes, and also to conteynne all that shalbe planted in those lands thenceforthe. Another 200. at Knockloughe in there former place of garrison, to kepe the Briskagh and all those mountaines of the Cavanaghes; 200. more to lye at Fearnes, and upwardes, inwardes upon the Slane; 200. to be placed at the fort of Leix, to restraine the Mores, Ossorie, and Ocarroll; other 200. at the forte of Ofaley, to carbe the Oconnors, Omolys in [Mac] Coghlane Maccughejan, and all those Irish nations borderinge thereaboute.

Eudoxus

Thus I see all your thousande men bestowed in Leinster: what saye you then of Meath, which is the firste parte?

Irenius

Meath, which conteyneth bothe Estmeath and Westmeath, and of laite the Analy, nowe called the country of Langforde, is accoumpted therunto: But Meath it selfe (accordinge to the ould recordes) 4320. plowelandes, and the county of Langford 947., which in the whole make 5267 plowlandes, of which the composition monye will amounte likewise to 5267 li. to the maintenance of the garrisone. But because all meath, lyinge in the bosome of that kingdome, is alwayes quiet ynough, yt is needelesse to put anye garrison there, soe as all that charge may be spared. But in the countye of Longforde I wishe 200. footmen and 50. horsemen to be placed in some convenient seate betwene the Annalie and Breine, as aboute Lough Silone or some like place of that ryver, soe as they myght keepe both the Oneales, and alsoe the Ofarralles, and all that outskirte of Meathe in awe; the which use uppon everye lighte occasion to be stirringe, and having contynuall enmitye amongeste themselves, doe therby oftentymes troble all those partes, the charge wherof beinge 4400 and odde poundes is to be cut oute of that compositione money for Meath and Longforde, the overplus, beinge almost 2000 li. by the yeare, will come in clearly to her Majestie.

Eudoxus

It is worth the harkening unto. But nowe that you have done with Meath, proceed I praye you to Mounster, that wee may see howe it will rise ther for the manteynance of the garrisone.

Irenius

Monster conteyneth by recorde at Dublyne 16000 plowlandes, the compositione whereof, as the reste, will make 16000 li. by the yeare, out of the which I would have 1000. soldyers to be mainteyned for the defence of that province, the charge, which with the victualers wages, will amount to 12000 li. by the yeare; thother 4000 li. will defray the charges of the Precydence and the Consell of that province.

Eudoxus

The reckininge is easye; but in this accompt, by your leave, me thinkes you are deceaved, for in this some of the compositione money you accompt the landes of the undertakers of that province, whoe are, by ther graunte frome the Queene to be free frome all such impositions whatsoever, exceptinge there only rente, which is surely ynoughe.

Irenius

Yee saye true, I did soe; but the same 20 s. for everye plolande I ment to have deducted out of the rente due upone them to her Majestie, which is noe hindrance, nor charge at all more to her Majestie then it nowe is, for all that rente which she receves of them, she putteth forth againe to the mayntenaunce of the Presidencie there, the charge whereof yt doth scarselye defraye; whereas in this accompte bothe that charge of the Presidencye, and alsoe of 1000 soldyors more, shalbe maynteyned.

Eudoxus

It should be well, if it coulde be brought to that. Nowe wher will you [have] your 1000 men garrysoned?

Irenius

I would have 100 of them placed at the Bantrie where is a most fytt place, not onlye to defende all that side of the countrye west parte frome forraine invasion, but alsoe to answere all occasions of trobles, to which that countrye, being so remote, is verye subiecte. And surelye here alsoe would be placed a good towne, havinge both verye good haven and plentifull fishinge, and the land beinge already escheated to her Majestie, being forcaible kepte from her by a rough tayle kerne that proclaimes him selfe the bastarde sonne of the Erle of Clancar, beinge called Donnell Mac Chartie, whom it is meet to forsee to cut of; for [as] whensoever the Erle shall dye, all those landes, after hime, are to come to her Majesty, he is like to make a foule stire there, though of hime selfe of noe power, yet through supportance of some others whoe lye in the winde, and looke after the fall of that inheritance. Another 100 woulde I have placed at Castlemaine, wich should kepe all Desmonde and Kerrye, for it answereth them both most covenyentlye: Alsoe aboute Kylmore in the countye of Corke would I have 200 placed, which shoulde breake that neste of theves there, and answere equallye both the countye of Lymbricke, and alsoe the countye of Corke: Another 100 whold I have lye at Corke, as well to command the towne, as alsoe to be readye for anye forreine occasione: likewise at Waterforde, would I place 200, for the same reasones, and alsoe for other privie causes, that are noe lesse importante. Moreover on the side of Arlo, nere to Maskrye Werke, which is the county of the Bourkes, aboute [Kill-patricke], would I have 200 to be garrisoned, which shoulde skowr both the White Knightes countrye and Arlo, and Muskre Wherkes, by which places all the passages of theeves doth lye, which convaie there stealthe from Mounster downwardes towards Tipperarie, and that Englishe Payle, and from the English Pale alsoe uppe unto Mounster, whereof they use to make a common trade. Besides that, ere longe I doubte the countye of Tipperarie yt selfe will neade such a strength in yt, which were good to be there readye before the evill fall, that is daylye of some expected: and thus you see all your garrisones placed.

Eudoxus

I see it right well, but lett me I praye you, by the way aske the reasone whie in those cyties of Mounster, namely Waterforde and Corke, you rather placed garrysons then in all the others in Irelande? For they maye thinke them selves to have great wrounge to be so charged above all the reste.

Irenius

I will tell you: those two cytties, above all the reste, doe offer an ingate to the Spanyarde moste fytlie; and alsoe inhabytants of them are moste ill affected to the Englishe government, and moste frendes to the Spanyardes; but yet, because they shall not take exceptione to this, that they are charged above all the reste, I will alsoe laye a charge upon the others likewise; for in deede it is no reason that the corporatee Townes, enjoyinge great franchises and priviledges from her Majestie, and livinge therby not only safe, but drawinge to them the wealth of all the lande, should live so free as not to be partakers of the burthen of this garrysone for there owne safetye, specially in this time of trouble, and seinge all the reste burdened; and therfore, I will thus charge them all ratably, accordinge to there abilities, towardes there mayntenance, the which her Majestie may yf she please, spare oute of the charge of the reste, and reserve towards her owne costes, or adde to the charge of the Presydence in the Northe.

Waterford 100. Clonmell 10. Dundal[k]e 10. Corke 100. Cashell10. Mollinger 10. Lymricke 50. Fedred 10. Newry 10. Galwaye 50.Kilkiny 25. Trime10. Kinsaile 10.Wexford 25. Ardrye 10. Dinglecushe 10. Treddagh 25. Kells 10. Youchall 10. Rosse25. Dubline 100. Kilmallocke 10. Suma 490. [should be 630.]

Eudoxus

It is easie, Iren: to laye a charge upone any towne, but to forsee howe the same maye be answered and defrayed is the chefe parte of good advisemente.

Irenius

Surely this charge which I put upon them I knowe to be soe resonable, as that it will not much [be] felte, for the porte townes which have benefitte of shippinge maye cutte it easelye of there tradinge, and in inlande townes of their corne and cattall: nether doe I see, but since to them the benefitte of peace doth redownde, that they specially should beare the burden of ther safegardes and defence, as wee see all the townes of the lowe countries doe cut upone them selves an excise of all thinges towardes the maintenance of the warre that is made in ther behalfe, to which thoughe the[y] feare not to be compared in riches, yett are to be charged accordinge to their poverty.

Eudoxus

But now that yowe have sett upone these forces of soldyers, and provided well as you suppose, for ther paye, yett there remaineth to forcaste howe they may be vitualed, and where purvayance therof may be made; for in Irelande yt selfe I cannot see howe anye thinge almoste is to be had for them, beinge alredye soe pittifullye wasted as it is with this shorte tyme of warre.

Irenius

For the firste two yeares indeed it is needefull that they be vitualled out of Englande throughlye, from halfe yeare to halfe yeare, aforehande. Which time the Englishe Paile shall not be burdened at all, but shall have tyme to recover them selves; and Mounster alsoe, beinge reasonablie well stored, will by that tyme, if God send sesonable wether, be throughly well furnished to supplye a greate parte of that charge, for I knowe there is a great plentye of corne sent over sea from thence, the which if they myght have sayle for at home, they would be glad to have money so neare hande, speciallye yf they were straightlye restrayned from transportinge of it. Thereunto alsoe there wilbe a great healpe and furtherance gyven to the puttinge forwarde of hubandrye in all meate places, as hereafter shall in due place appeare. But hereafter, when thinges shall growe to a better strengthe, and the country be replenished with corne, as in shorte space yt will if it be well folowed, for the country people themselves are greate plowers, and smale spenders of corne, then woulde I wishe there should be good store houses and magazines erected in all those great places of garrisons, and in all greate townes, aswell for the victuallinge of soldyers and shipps, as for all occasions of sudden services, as alsoe for preventinge of all tymes of dearth and scarsitye: and this want is much to be complayned of in Englande above all other countryes, whoe, trustinge to much to the usuall blessinge of the earth, doe never forcaste anye such hard sesaons, nor any such sudden occasions as these troblesome tymes maye everye daye bringe forthe, when it wilbe too late to gather provisione from abroad, and to bringe perhapes from farre for the furnishinge of shipes or soldyers, which peradventure maye need to be presently imployed, and whose wante maye (which God forbid) happ to hazarde a kingdome.

Eudoxus

In deed the wante of those magasynes of victualls, I have harde oftentymes complayned of in England, and wondred at in other countreyes, but that is nothinge nowe to oure purpose; but as for these garrisons which yee have nowe so stronglye planted throughout all Irland, and everye place swarminge with soldyers, shall there be noe end of them? For nowe thus beinge me semeth, I doe see rather a countrye of warre then of peace and quiet, which ye erste pretended to worke in Irelande; for if you bringe all thinges to the quietnes which yee said, what nead then to maintaine soe great forces as ye have charged upon it?

Irenius

I will unto you, Eudoxus. in privitye discover the drifte of my purpose: I mean (as I toulde you) and doe well hoppe therby bothe to settle an eternall peace in that country, and alsoe to make yt very profitable to her Majestie, the which I see muste be broughte in by a stronge hande, and soe contenued untill it growe into a stedfast course of governmente, the which in this sorte will nether be defyculte nor dangerous; for the soldyers beinge once broughte in for the service into Ulster, and havinge subdued it and Connaught, I will not have hyme to laye downe his armes anye more, tyll he have effected that which i purpose: that is, firste to have this a generall compositione for the mayntenance of these througheout all the realme, in regarde of the trobles tymes, and daylye danger which is threatned to this realme by the King of Spaine: and thereupone to bestowe all my soldyers in [such] sort as I have done, that noe parte of all Irlande shalbe able to dare soe much as quinch. Then will I bring eftsones in my reformacon, and thereupon establishe such an order of govermente as I may thinke meteste for the good of that realme, which beinge once established, and all thinges put into a righte way, I dowbt not but they will rune one farely. And though they would ever seeke to swarve asyde, yet shall they not be able without forraine violence once to remoove, as you your selfe shall sone, I hope, in your owne reasone readelye conceve; which if it shall ever appere, thene maye her Majestie at pleasure withdrawe some of the garrisone, and torne ther paye into her purse, or if she will never please soe to doe (which I would rather wish), then shall she have a nomber of brave oulde soldyers alwayes readye for anye occasion that she will ymploe vnto, suppliinge there garrisones with fresh ones in there steed; the maintenance of whome shalbe noe more charge to her Majestie then nowe the realme is; for all the revinue thereof, and muche more, she spendeth, even in the most peaceable tymes that are there, (as things nowe stande). And in tyme of warre, which is sure nowe everye vij yeare, she spendeth infynite tresure besides to smale porpose.

Eudoxus

I perceve your porpose; but nowe if you have thus strongly made waye unto your reformacon, as that I see the people soe humbled and prepared that they will and muste yeald to any ordynance that shalbe geuen them, I doe much desire to understand the same; for in the beginninge you promised to shewe a mean howe to redresse all those inconveniences and abuses, which you shewed to be in that state of governmente, which nowe standeth ther, as in the lawes, customes, and religione: wherin I woulde gladlye knowe firste, whether, in steed of those lawes, you would have newe lawes made? for nowe, for oughte that I see, you maye doe what you please.

Irenius

I see, Eudoxus that yowe well remember our firste porpose, and doe rightlye contynue the course thereof. Firste therfore to speake of lawes, since we firste begane with them, I doe not thinke yt convenient, though nowe it be in the power of the Prince to change all the lawes and make newe; for that should bread great toble and confusione, aswell in the Englishe now dwellinge and to be planted, as alsoe in the Irishe. For the Englishe, havinge bene trained upp alwayes in the Englishe governement, will hardely be enduced unto any other, and the Irishe wilbe better drawne to the Englishe, then the Englishe to the Irishe governmente. Therfore since wee cannot nowe applie lawes fitte to the people, as in the firste institutione of comone-welthes it ought to be, wee will applye the people, and fitt them to the lawes, as it most conveniently maye be. The lawes therfore we resolve shall abyde in the sam sorte that they doe, bothe Commone Lawes and Statutes, onlye suche defectes in the Comone Lawe, and inconveniens in the Statutes, as in the begininge wee noted, and as men of deep insighte shall advise, may be changed by some other newe actes and ordynances to be [by] a Parlymente there confirmed: as those of tryalls of Ples of the Crowne, and private righte betwene parties, colorable convaiances, [and] accessaries.

Eudoxus

But howe will those be redressed by Parlimente, when as the Irishe, which swaye moste in Parlamente, as you said, shall oppose them selves againste them?

Irenius

That maybe well avoyded: for nowe that soe manye free-holders of Englishe shalbe established, they togeather with Burgesses of townes, and such other loyall Irishe men as may be preferred to be Knightes of the shire, and such like, wilbe able to beard and counterpose the reste; whoe alsoe, beinge nowe broughte more in awe, will the more easelye submite to anye such ordynances as shalbe for the good of them selves, and that realme generallye.

Eudoxus

You say well, for the incresse of the Freholders, for ther nombers will hereby be greatlye augmented; but howe shall it passe throughe the higher house, [which] will styll consiste all of Irishe?

Irenius

Marie, that alsoe maye be redressed by example of that which I hard was donne in the like case, by Kinge Edwarde the Theerd, as I remember, whoe, beinge greatly barred and crossed by the billes of the Clargie, they beinge then by reasone of the Lord Abbote and others, too many and stronge for them, soe her could not for there forwardnes, order and reforme thinges as he desiered, was advised to dyrecte forth his writtes to certaine Gentlemen, and of the beste abilitye and truste, intitlinge them therin Barrons, to serve and sytt as Barrons in the next Parlyment. By which meanes he had soe manye Barons in his Parlamente, as were able to weighte downe the Clarge and there frendes: the which Barons they saye, were not afterwardes lordes, but onely Barronits, as sundrye of them doe yett retayne the name. And by the like devise her Majestie maye nowe likewise curbe and cut shorte those Irishe unrulye lordes that hinder all good proceedinges.

Eudoxus

It semeth noe lesse then for reforminge of all those inconveniente statutes which yee noted in the beginninge, and redressinge of all those evell costomes, and lastelye, for settinge sounde religione amongest them: mee thinkes yee should not neade anye more to over-goe those particulers againe, which you menconed, nor anye other which might besides be remembred, but to leave to the reformacon of such a Parlamente, in which, by the good care of the Lord Deputye and Consell, they maye all amende. Therfore nowe that you maye come come to that genarall reformacon which you spake of, and bringinge in of all that establishement, by which you said all men should be conteyned in duetie ever after, without the terror of warlike forces, or violent wrestinge of thinges by sharpe punyshmente.

Irenius

I will soe at your pleasure, the which me semes by noe meanes can be better plotted, then by example of suche other Realmes as have ben annoyed with the like evelles, Ireland nowe is, and useth styll to be. And firste in this Realme of England, yt is manifeste, by the reporte of the Cronycles and other aunciente writers, that it was greatly infected with robbers and outelawes, which lurked in woodes and faste places, whence they vsed often tymes to breake forth into the highe wayes, and sometymes into smale villages to robbe and spoyle. For redresse whereof it is written that Kinge Allured, or Alfride, whoe then raigned, did devide the relme into shires, and the shires into hundredes, [and the hundredes] into rapes, Rapentackes, and wapentackes into tythinges: So that tenn tythinges made an hundred, and five made a laythe or weapentacke, of which tenn, eache one was bounde for another, and the eldest or best of theme, whom they called the Tythingman or Bourroghsolder, that is, the eldest plege, became suretye for all the reste. Soe that if anye one of theme did starte into anye undutiful actione, the Burroughsolder was bounde to bringe hyme forth, whoe joyninge eftesones with all his tythinge, would folowe the loose persone through all places, till they brought hyme in. And if all the tythinge fayled, then all the lathe was charged for the tythinge, and if that lathe fayled, then all the hundreth was demanded for theme; and if the hundreth, then the shire, whoe joyninge eftsones altogether, would not rest tyll they had founde oute and delyvered in, that unlawfull felowe which was not ameanable to lawe. And herin yt semed, that that good Saxon Kinge folowed the Consell of Jethro to Moyses, who advised hyme to devide the people into hundreds, and to sette Captaines and wise men of trust over them, which shoulde take the charge of them, and ease hyme of that burden. And soe did Romulus, as you may reade, devyde the Romaines into trybbes, and the tribbes into centuryons or hundreds. By this ordynaunce this Kinge brought this realme of Englande, which before was most trooblesome, unto that quiet state, that noe one badd person could stirre that he was [not] streighte taken hould of by those his tythinge, and ther Burrowsolder, whoe beinge his neighboure or next kindesman was pryvie to all his wayes, and loked narrowly to his life. The which institutione yf it were observed in Irland, would worke that effecte which it did in Englande, and kepe all men within the Compasse of duetie and obedyence.

Eudoxus

This is contrary to that you said before; for, as I remember, you said that ther was a greate disproportione betwene Englande and Irlande, soe as the lawes which were fittinge of the one would not fitt the other. Howe comes it then nowe, that ye would transferre a principall institutione from Englande to Irland?

Irenius

This lawe was not made by a Norman conqueror, but by a Saxon Kinge, being at what tyme England was verye like to Irland, as nowe it standes: for it was, I tould you, annoyed greatly with robbers and outlawes, which trobled the whole realme, everye corner havinge in it a Robyn Hoode, that kept all woodes, and spoiled all passingers and inhabitants, as Irland nowe haith; soe as, me semeth, this ordynance would fitt verye well, and bring them all into one.

Eudoxus

Then, when you have thus tithed the commonaltye, as you say, and set Burrowsolders over them all, what would you doe when yee came to the gentlemen? would you hold the same corse?

Irenius

Yee, marye, most specially; for this you must knowe, that all the Irishe almoste boste them selves to be gentlemen, noe lesse then the Welchmen; for if he cane deryve hymselfe from the heade of a sept, as most of them can, they are [so] experte by there Bardes, then soe holdeth hyme selfe a gentleman, and thereupon scorneth eftsones to worke, or vse anye harde laboure, which he saith is the liese of a pessant or churle; but thenceforth either becometh a horseboye, or a stocage to some kerne, inuring hyme selfe to his weapone, and to the generall traide of stealinge, (as they count it). Soe that if a gentleman, or anye worthye yoman of them, have anye childrene, the eldeste of them perhappes shalbe kepte in some order, but all the reste shall shifte for them selves, and fall to this occupacon. And it is a commen use amongest some of there beste gent[lemen] tenantes sonnes, that soe soone as they are able to use there weapons, they streight gether to themselves three or foure strauglers, or kernes, with whome wanderinge a while idellye vpe and downe the countrye, takinge onlye meate, he at laste falleth unto some badde occasione that he shalbe offrede, which beinge once made knowen, he is thencforthe counted a mane of worth, in whom there is corrage; whereupon there drawe to hime manye other like loose younge men, which, stirringe hime up, with encouragement, provoke hyme shortlye to flatte rebellion; and this happens not onlye in the sonnes of gentle[men], but oftentymes by there noblemen, specially there base borne sonnes, as there are fewe without some of them. For they are not onlye not ashamed to acknowledge them, but alsoe to boste of them, and use them in such secrett services as they themselves will not be seen in, as to plauge there enemyes, spoyle there neighbores, to oppresse and crush some of [their] owne to to stubborne freholders, which are not tractlable to their badde willes. Two such bastardes of the Lord Roche's there are nowe out in Mounster, whom he doth not only countenance but alsoe pryvilye mainteyne and relyve mightely amongest his tenantes. Such other is thereof the Erle of Clancarte in Desmond, and manye otheres in many other places.

Eudoxus

Then it semeth that this ordynance of tythinge them by the pole is not only fitt for the gentlemen, but alsoe for the noblemen, whom I would [have] thought to have bene soe honourable mynded, as that they should not need suche a base kinde of lyvinge, being bounde to there allegance, [who] should rather have held in and stayed all others from undutifulnes, then need to be forced thereunto them selves.

Irenius

Yet soe it is, Eudoxus but yet because that noblemen cannot be tythed, there beinge not manye tythinges of them, and because a Barrowe holder over them should not only be a great indignitye, but alsoe a danger to adde more power to them then they have, or to make one the comander of tenne, I holde it meet that there were onelye sewerties taken of them, and one bounde for another, wherbye, if anye shall swarve, his sewerties shall for safegarde of ther bandes bringe hyme in, or seeke to serve upon him: and besydes, I would wish them all to be sworne to her Majestie, which they never yet were, but at the first creatyon; and that oath would sure contayne them greatly, or the breach of yt bringe them to shorter vengence, for God useth to punishe perjurye sharply. So I read, in the raigne of Edward the 2, and also of Henry the 7, when the tymes were very broken, that there was a corporate oath taken, of all the lordes and best gentlemen of fealty to the Kinge, which nowe is noe lesse nedfull, because many of them are suspected to have taken an other oath privylie to some badd purpose, and therupon they have receaved the Sacramente, and ben sworne to a preist, which they thinke bindeth them more then theire alleagance to their Prince, or love of their countrye.

Eudoxus

This tythinge of the common-people, and takinge suretyes of lordes and gentlemen, I like very we, but that it wilbe very troblesome: should yt not be as well to have to have them all booked, and the lordes and gentlemen to take all meaner sorte upon themselves? for they are best able to bringe them in, whensoever any of them started out.

Irenius

This inded Eudoxus hath bene hitherto, and yet is a comon order amongst them, to have all the people booked by lords and gentlemen, but yt is the worst order that ever was devised; for by this bokinge of men, all the inferyour sort are brought under the commaundes of theire lords, and forced to followe them into any actyon whatsoever. Now this ye are to understand, that all the rebellyons which ye see from tyme to tyme hapen in Ireland, are not begune by the comon people, but by the lords and captaines of countryes, upon pride or wilfull obstanacye against the government, which whensoever they enter into, they drawe with them all their people and such followers, as thinke themselves bound to goe with them, because they have boked them and undertaken for them. And this is the reasone that you have fewe such badd occasyons here in England by reason that the noble men howeever they should hapen to be evill disposed, have no commande at all over the comynalty, though dwellinge under them, because every man standeth upon himselfe, and buildeth his fortunes upon his own fayth and firme assurance: the which this manner of tythinge the powles will worke also in Ireland. For by this the people are broken into many small parts, like lytle streames, that they canot easely come together into one heade, which is the princypall regard that is to be had in Ireland to kepe them from growinge into such a head, and adheringe unto greate men.

Eudoxus

But yet I canot see how this can be brought about, without doinge greate wrong unto the noble men there; for at the conquest of the realme, those greate signoryes and lordships were given them by the King, that they should bee the stronger againste the Irish, by the multitude of followers and tennauntes under them: all which hould their tenementes of them by fealtye, and such services, wherby they are by the first graunte of the King, made bound unto them, and tyed to rise out with them upon all occasyons of service. And this I have often heard, that when the Lord Deputies have raysed any generall ostinges, the noble men have claymed the leadinge of them, by graunt from the Kings of England inder the Greate Seale exhibyted; so as the Deputye[s] would not refuse them to have the leadinge of them, or yf they did, they would so worke, as none of they[r] followers should rise forth to the ostinge.

Irenius

Yee say very true; but will ye see fruite of those grauntes? I have knowne when those lords have had the leadinge of theire owne followers under them to the generall ostinges, that they have for the same cut upon every plowland within their country forty shillinges or more, wherby some of them have gathered above vij. or viij. c. li., and others much more into there purse, in lieue wherof they have gathered unto themselves a nomber of lose kernes out of all parts, which they have caryed forth with them, to whome they never gave penny of entertaynment, allowed by the contry or forced by them, but let them feed upon the contryes, [and] extorte upon all men where they cam; for thatpeople will never aske better entertaynment then to have a collour of service or imployment geven them, by which they will powle and spoile so outragiously, that the very enemy cannot do much worse: and besides turne them to the enemy.

Eudoxus

It semes the first intents of these grauntes was against the Irish, which now some of them use against the Queene her selfe: But now what remedye is there for this? or how can these grauntes of the Kinges be avoyded, without wronge of those lords which had those landes and lordships geven them?

Irenius

Surely they may be well enough; for most of those lords, since the first grantes from the Kings by whome these landes were geven them, have sence bestowed the most parte of them amongst theire kinsfolke, as everye lord perhaps in his tyme hath geven one or another of his principall castells to his yonger sonnes and other to others, as largly and as amply as they were given to him; and others they have sold, and others bought, which were not in theire first grauntes, which nowe neverthelesse they bringe within the compas therof, and take and exacte upon them, as theire first demeanes of all thiose kindes of services, yea and the very wilde Irishe exactyons as Coynie and Lyverye for him, and such like, by which they pole and utterly undoe the pore tennantes and frehoulders under them, which ether through ignorance knew not theire tennors, or through greatnes of theire newe lords dare not chalenge them; yea, and some lords of countryes also, as greate ones as themselves, are nowe by stronge hand brought under them, and made theire vassalls. As for example Arundell of the Strande in the County of Corke, who was auncyently a greate lord, and able to spend 3500 li. by the yeare, as apeareth by good recordes, is nowe become the Lord Barrye's man, and doth to him all those services, which are due unto her Majestie. For reformacon of which, I wish that theire were a commissyon graunted forth under the Great Seale, as I have seene one recorded in the ould councell Boke in Mounster: that was sent forth in the tyme of Sir William Drurye unto persons of specyall trust and judgment to enquire thoroughout all Ireland, beginninge in one countye first and so restinge a while untill the same were setled, by the verdicte of a sounde and substantyall jurye, howe every man houldeth his landes, of whome and by what tennor, so that everye one should be admitted to shewe and exhibite what right he hath, and by what services he houldeth his lande, whether in cheife or in soccage, or in knight service, or els soever. Thereupon would apeare, first howe all those greate English lords do claime those greate services, what signoryes they usurpe, what wardships they take from the Queene, what landes of hers they concealde: and then, howe those Irish captaines have encroched upon the Queenes frehoulders and tennantes, how they have translated the tennors of them from English houldinge into Irish Tanistre, and defeated her Majestie of all her right and duetyes whcih are to acrew to her therabout, as wardshipps, liveryes, marriages and fines of allyenacons, with many other comodyties; which nowe are kepte and conceald from her Majesty to the vallowe of 60000 li. yearely, I dare undertake, in all Ireland, by that which I knowe in one countye.

Eudoxus

This, Irenius would seme a dangerous commission, and redy to stirre uppe all the Irish in rebellion, who knowinge that they have nothinge to shewe for all those lands which they hould, but theire swordes, would rather drawe them then suffer theire landes to be thus drawne away from them.

Irenius

Neyther should theire landes be taken away from them, nor the uttermost advantages enforced against them: But this by descretyon of the commissioners should be made knowne unto them, that it is not her Majesties meaninge to use any such extremetye, but onely to reduce thinges into order of English lawe and make them hould their landes of her Majestye and to restore to her her due services, which they detayne out of those landes which were auncyently helde by her Majestye. And that they should not onely [not] be thrust out, but also have estates and grauntes of theire landes newe made to them from her Majestye, so as they should thenceforth hould them rightfullye, which they nowe usurpe most wrongfully; and yet withall I would wish that in all those Irish countryes there were some land reserved to her Majestyes free disposytyon for the better contayninge of the rest, and enterninglinge them with English inhabytantes and customes, that knowledg might styll be had by them of theire doinges, so as no manner of practise or conspiracye should be in hand amongst them, but notice should be given therof by one meanes or another, and theire practises prevented.

Eudoxus

Truly neither can the Irish, nor English lords, thinke themselves wronged, or hardly delt withall herin, to have that indeed which is none of their owne at all, but her Majestyes absolutely, geven unto them with such equall condicons, as that both they may be assured therof, better then they are, and also her Majestye not defrauded of her right utterly; for yt is a greate grace with a prince, [to] take that with condicons which is absolutely her owne. Thus shall the Irish be well satisfied, and as for the greate men which had such grauntes made them at first by the Kings of England, [it] was in regard they should kepe out the Irish, and defend the Kings right, and his subjectes: but now seinge that, in sted of defendinge them, they robb and spoyle them and, in stead of kepinge out the Irish, they doe not onely make the Irish theire tennantes in those lands, and thrust out the English, but also they themselves become mere Irish, with marrying them, fosteringe with them, and combinynge with them against the Queene; what reason is there but those grauntes and precedentes should be eyther revoked, or at least reduced to theire first intencon for which they were graunted? for surely in my opinyon they were more sharpely to be chastised and reformed then the wilde Irish, which, beinge very rude at the first, are nowe become somewhat more civill, when as English, from Englyshe are growene to be wilde and mere Irishe.

Irenius

Indede as you saye, Eudoxus these do need a sharper reformacon than the very Irish, for they are much more stuborne, and disobediente to lawe and governement, than the Irish be; and more mallytious than the English that are dayle sent over.

Eudoxus

Is that possible? I pray you, howe comes yt to passe? what might be the reason herof?

Irenius

Mary, they saye that the land is theires, onely by right, beinge first conquered by theire auncestors, and that they are wronged by the newe Englishe men's entringe theire unto, whom they call la sa Bona, that is in English with a greate reproch as they would rate a dogge. [And for] that some of youre auncestors were in tymes past (when they were Civill and uncorupted) deputyes and Justices of the land, they thinke that the like authoritye should be comytted unto you and the charge of the Realme lefte in theire hands; which, for that they se now otherwise disposed and that trust not given them (which theire auncestors had) they thinke them selves greately indignyfyed and disgraced therby, and so growe both discontented and undutyfull.

Eudoxus

In truth, Irenyus, this is more than ever I hard, that the English-Irish there should bee worse then the wild Irishe: O Lord, howe quickly doth that country alter mens natures! It is not for nothinge I perceave that I have heard, that the Councell of England thinke yt not good polycye to have that realme reformed, or planted with English, lest they should growe so undutyfull as the Irish, and become much more dangerous: as apeareth by the example of the Lacyes in the tyme of Edward the Second, which you spake of, that shoke of theire religion to theire naturall Prince, and turned to Edward le Bruce, devisinge to make him Kinge of Irelande.

Irenius

No tymes have bene without bad men: But as for that purpose of the Councell of England, which ye speake [of,] that they should kepe that Realme from reformacon, I thinke, they are most lewdlye abused, for theire greate carfulnes and earnest endeavors do witnesse the contrarye. Neyther is yt [the] nature of the countrye to alter a mans manners, but the badd mindes of them, whom havinge bene brought uppe at home under a straight rule of dutye and obedyence, beinge alwayes restrayned by sharpe penaltyes from lewde behavior, so soone as they come thither, where they see lawes so slackely tended, and the hard [restraint] which they were used unto nowe slacked, they growe more lose and carelesse of theire dutye. As yt is the nature of all men to love libertye, so they become flatt libertynes, and fall to flatt licentyousnes, more bouldly daringe to disobay the lawe, through presumptyon of favor, and freindshippe, then any Irish dare.

Eudoxus

Then yf it be so, me thinkes your late advisement was very evell, whereby you wished the Irish to be sowed and sprinckled with the English, [and] in all the Irishe countryes to have English planted amongst them for to bringe them to Eng[lish] fashons, since the English be soner drawne to the Irish, then the Irish to the English: for as I said before, [if] they much rune with the streame, the greater number will carry awaye the lesse: Therefore me semes by this reason yt should be better to parte the Irishe and English, then to mingle them together.

Irenius

Not so, Eudoxus but where there is no good staye of government, and stronge ordinances to hold them, there inded the fewer will followe the more, but where there is due order of discipline and good rule, there the better shall goe foremost, and the worst shall followe. And therefore since Ireland is full of her owne nacon, that may not be rooted [out], and somewhat stored with English alredy, and more to be, I thinke yt best by an unyon of maners, and conformytye of mindes, to bringe them to be one people, and to put awaye the dislikefull conceipt both of the one, and of thother, which wilbe by no meanes better then by this interminglinge of them: that neyther all the Irish may dwell together, nor all the Englishe, but by translatynge of them and scatteringe them in small numbers amongst the English, not onely to bringe them by dayly conversatyon unto better likinge of each other, but also to make both of them lesse able to hurte. And therfore when I come to the tythes, I will tythe them one with another, and for the most parte will make the Irish man the tything-man, wherby he shall take the lesse exceptyon to partiallitye and yet be the more tyed therby. But when I come to the Head Borough, which is the head of the lath, him will I make an Englishman, or Irish man of no small assurance: as also when I come to apointe the Elderman, that is the head of the hundreth, him will I surely chuse [to be] an English man of specyall regarde, that may be a stay and piller of all the Boroughs under him.

Eudoxus

What do you meane by your hundred? and what by your Borough? By that, which I have red in auncyent recordes of England, one hundred did contayne a hundred villages, or as some saye a c. plowlandes, beinge the same which the Saxons called Cantred; the which cantred, as I finde it recorded in the blacke boke of Irelande, did contayne 30, Villattas terrae, which some call, quarters of land, and every Villatta can maintayne 400 cowes in pasture, and the 400. cowes to be devided in 4 heardes, so as none of them shall come nere another: every Villata contayneth 17 plowlandes, as is there set downe. And by that which I have red of a Borough, it signyfieth a free towne, which had a principall officer, called a head borough, to become ruler, and undertake for all the dwellers under him, havinge for the same franchises and priviledges graunted them by the King, wherof yt was called a free boroughe, [and] of the lawyer Franciplegium.

Irenius

Both that which ye sayde, Eudoxus is true, and yet that which I sayd not untrue; for that which ye speake of devidinge the contrey into hundreds, was a devise of the lands of the Realme, but this which I tell, was of the people, who were thus devided by the poll: so that an c. in this sence signyfyeth a c. pledges, which were under the command and asurance of theire alderman, the which, as I suppose, was also called a waapentacke, so named of touchinge the weapon or sparke of theire alderman, and swearinge to folowe him faythfully, and serve theire Prince trulye. But others thinke that a weapontacke was ten humdreds or Boroughs: likewise a boroughe, as I here use yt, and as the ould lawes still use yt, is not a borough towne, as they nowe call yt, that is a franchist towne, but a mayne pledge of c. free persons, therfore called a fre borough or as ye say Franciplegium: For Borh in ould Saxon say signyfieth pledges or suretyes, and yet yt is so used in some speeches, as Chaucer sayth St. John to barrowe, that is for assurance and warrantye.

Eudoxus

I conceave the difference. But now that ye have thus devided the people into these tythinges, and hundreds, howe will you have them so preserved and continued? for people do often chaunge theyr dwellinges, and some must dye, whilst othersome doe growe up into strength of yeares, and become men.

Irenius

These hundred I would [wish] to assemble themselves once every yeare with theire pledges, and to present themselves before the justices of peace, which shalbe thereunto apointed, to be survayed and nombred, to se what change hath happened since the yeare before; and, the defectes to suply of those yonge plantes late growne uppe, which are diligently to be overloked and vewed of what condicon and demeanor they be, so as pledges may be taken for them, and they put into order of some tythinge: of all which alteracons note is to be taken, and bookes made thereof accordingly.

Eudoxus

Now mee thinkes Irenius, ye are to be warned to take good hede, leaste unawares ye fall into the inconveniencyes which you formerly founde faulte with in others; namely, that by this bokinge of them, you do not gather them into another head, and havinge broken theire former strength, do not againe unite them more stronglye: for every Alderman, havinge all his fre pledges of his hundred under his command, may me thinkes, yf he be yll disposed, drawe all his companye into any evill actyon. And likewise, by this assemblinge of them once a yeare unto theire Alderman by theire weapontackes, take heede least ye also give them occasyon and meanes to practise any harme in any conspiracye.

Irenius

Neyther of both is to be doubted; for the aldermen and headborrowes will not be such men of power and countenance of themselves, being to be chosen thereunto, as neede to be feared: Neither, yf he were, is his hundred at his commaund further then his Princes service; and also every tything man may controll him in such a case. And as for the assemblinge of the hundred, much lesse is any danger therof to be doubted, seinge yt is before a justice of peace, or some high constable to be therunto apointed: so as of these tythinges there can no peryll ensue, but a certayne assurance of peace and greate good; for they are thereby withdrawne from theire lords, and subjected to theire Prince. Moreover for the [better] breakinge of these heades and sectes, which I tould you was one of the greatest strengthes of the Irishe, me thinkes, yt should do very well to renewe that ould statute that was made in reigne of Edward the Fourth in England, by which it was comaunded, that wheras all men that used to be called by the name of theire sectes, accordinge to theire severall nacons, and had no surnames at all, that from thenceforth each one should take unto himselfe a severall surname, eyther of his trade or facultye, or of some quallety of his body or mynde, or of the place where he dwelte, so as everye one should be distinguished from other, or from the most parte, wherby they shall not onely not depend upon the head of their secte, as nowe they doe, but also shall in shorte tyme learne quyte to forgett this Irish natyon. And herewithall would I also wish all the Oes and the Mackes wich the head of the sectes have taken to theire names, to be utterly forbiden and extinguyshed; for that the same beinge an ould manner (as some sayth) first made by O Brin, for the strengthninge of the Irish, the abrogatinge therof will asmuch infable them.

Eudoxus

I like this ordinaunce very well; but now that you have thus devided and distinguished them, what other order will you take for theire maner of lyfe? for all that, thoughe perhaps yt may kepe them from disobedyence and disloyaltye, yet will yt not bringe them from theire barbarisme and savadge lyfe.

Irenius

The next [thing] that I will doe shalbe to apointe to every one, that is not able to live of his frehoulde, a certayne trade of lyfe, to which he shall find himselfe fitteste, and shalbe thought ablest, the which trade he shalbe bounde to followe, and live onely therupon. All trades therfore [it] is to be understode [are to be] of iij kindes, manuell, intellectuall, and mixed, th'one containinge all such as nede the exercyse of bodely labor to the performance of theire professyon; th'other consistinge onely of the exercyse of the witte and reason; the third parte of bodely labor, and parte of the witte, but dependinge [most] of industrye and carefulnes. Of the first sorte be all handycrafts and husbandrye labor. Of the seconde be all scyences, and those which are called the liberall Arts. Of the thirde is marchandize and chafferye, that is, buyinge and sellinge; and without all these iij there is no commonwealth can almost consyst, or at the leaste be perfecte. But the wretched realme of Ireland wanteth the most princypall of them, that is, the intellectuall; therfore in sekinge to restore her state yt is specyall to be loked unto. But because of husbandrye, which supplyeth unto us all thinges necessarye for foode, whereby we cheifly live, therfore yt is first to be provided for. The first thinge then that we are to drawe these newe tythed men unto, ought to be husbandrye. First, because yt is most naturall and most needefull; then, becuase it is most naturall; and lastly, because yt is most enemy to warre, and most hateth inquietnesse, as the Poet sayth, “bella execrata collonis” But husbandrye beinge the nurse of thrifte, and the daughter of industrye and labor, detesteth all that may worke her scathe, and destroy the travell of her hands, whose hope is all her lives comforte unto the plough: therfore are all those Kearne, Stochaus, and Horsboyes, to bee drawen and mad to imploye that ablenesse of bodye, which they [were] wonte to use to thefte and villainye, hencforth to labor and husbandrye. In the which, by that tyme they have spente but a lytle payne, they will find such swetenes and happy contentment, that they will hardly afterwardes be hayled away from yt, or drawne to their wonted leude lyfe in theivery and rogerye. And beinge thus once entered therunto, they are not onely to be countenanced and encoradged by all good meanes, but also provided that theire children after them may be brought up in the same, and succed in the rome of their fathers. To which end there is a Statute in Ireland alredy well provided, which comaundeth that all the sonnes of hubandmen shalbe trayned uppe in theire fathers trade, but it is, God wot, very slenderly loked unto.

Eudoxus

But do you not counte, in this trade of husbandrye, pasturinge of cattell, and kepinge of theire cowes? for that is reckoned as parte of husbandrye. Iren: I knowe yt is, and nedfull to be used, but I doe not meane to allowe any of these able bodyes, which are able to use bodely labor, to followe a fewe cowes grasinge, but such impotente persons, as beinge unable for stronge travell, are yet able to drive cattell to and froe the pasture; for this kepinge of cowes is of yt self a very idle lyfe, and a fit nursery for a theife. For which cause, ye remember, I dislyked the Irishman for kepinge of Bollyes in Sommer upon the mountayne, and lyvinge after that savadg sorte. But yf they will alwayes fede any cattle, or kepe them on the mountaynes, let them make some townes nere to the mountaynes syde, where they may dwell together with neighbors, and be conversante in the vewe of the world. And to say truth, though Ireland be by nature counted a greate soyle of pasture, yet I had rather have fewer cowes kept, and men better mannred, then to have such huge increase of cattell, and no increase of condicons. I would therfore wish that there were some ordinaunce made amongst them, that whatsoever kepeth twentye kine shold kepe a plough goinge, for otherwise all men would fall to pasturinge, and none to husbandrye, which is a greate cause of this dearth nowe in England, and a cause of the usuall stealthes now in Ireland: For loke in all countryes that live in such sorte by kepinge of cattell, and you shall find that they are both very barbarous and uncivill, and greatly given to warre. The Tartaryans, the Muscovites, the Norwayes, the Gothes, the Armenyans, and many other do witnes the same. And therfore since nowe we purpose to drawe the Irish from desire of warre and tumults, to the love of peace and civylitye, yt is expediente to abridge theire custome of heardinge, and augment their trade more of tyllinge and hubandrye. As for other occupacons and trades, they ned not to be enforced ot, but every man bound onely to followe that he thinks himselfe aptest for. For other trades of artificers wilbe occupied for very necessityes, and constrayned use of them; and so likewise will marchandize for the gaine therof; but learninge and bringing up in liberall scyences, will not come of yt selfe, but must be drawne on with straight lawes and ordinaunces: And therfore yt were mete that such an acte were ordayned, that all the sonnes of lords and gentlemen, and such others as are able to bring them up in learninge, should be trayned uppe herin from theire childhodes. And for that end everye parish shalbe forced to kepe one pettye scholemater, adjoininge unto the parish charge, to be the more in veiwe, which should bringe up theire children in the first rudiments of letteres: and that, in every country of baroney, they should kepe another able scholemasiter, which should instructe them in grammer, and in the princyples of scyences, to whom they shold be compelled to send theire youth to be discyplyned, wherby they will in shorte tyme growe uppe to that civyll conversasyon, that both the children will loath the former rudnes in which they were bred, and also theire parentes will, even by the ensample of theire yonge children, perceave the foulnes of theire owne brutishe behavior compared to theires: for learninge hath that wonderfull power of yt selfe, that yt can soften and temper the most sterne and savadge nature.

Eudoxus

Surely I am of your minde, that nothing will bring them from theire uncivill life soner then learninge and discypline, next after the knowledge and feare of God. And therfore I doe still expecte, that ye should come thereunto, and set some order for reformacon of religion, which is first to be respected; accordinge to the sayinge of CHRIST, “First seke the kingdome of heaven, and the righteousnes therof”.

Irenius

I have in mynde so to doe; but let me, I pray you, first finish that which I had in hand, wherby all the ordinances which shall after be set downe for religion may abid the more firmely, and be observed more diligently. Now that this people is thus tythed and ordred, and every one bound to some trade of lyfe, which shalbe particulerly entred and set downe in tythinge bookes, yet perhaps there wilbe some straglers and runagates which will not of themselves come and yeld themselves to this order, and yet after the well finishinge of the present warre, and establishinge of the garisons in every stronge place of the countrye, where theire wonted refuge was most, I suppose there will fewe stand out, or yf they doe, they will sone be brought in by the eares: But yet afterwardes, least any one of these should swarve, or any that is tyed to a trade should afterwardes not followe the same, according to this institutyon, but should straggle upp and downe the countrye or mich in corners amongest theire friends idllye, as Carrowe, Bardes, Jesters, and such like, I would wish that there were a Provost Marshall apointed in everye sheire, which shoud continually walke thorough the countrey, with half a dozen, or halfe a score horsemen, to take up such lose persons as they should finde thus wandringe, whom he should punish by his owne authoretye, with such paynes as the persons should seme to deserve: for yf he be but once so taken idelye roginge, he may punishe him more lightlye, as with stockes, or such like: but yf he be found agayne so loytringe, he may scorge him with whips, or roddes, after which yf he be taken agayne, let him have the bitternes of the Marshall lawe. Likewise yf any relickes of the rebellion be found by him, that eyther have not come in and submitted him selfe to the law, or that havinge once come in, breake forth againe, and walke disorderlye, let them tast of the same cuppe in Gods name; for yt was due to them for theire first guilte, and nowe beinge revived by theire later lose nes, let them have theire first deserte, as nowe beinge found unfitt to live in a commonwealthe.

Eudoxus

This were a good maner; but me thinkes yt is an unnecessarye charge, and also unfitte to continue the name or forme of any marshall lawe, when as there is a proper oficer apointed alredy for these turnes, to witt the sherife of the sheire, whose particuler ofice yt is to walke contynually up and downe his Bayliwicke, as ye would have a marshall, to snatch up all those runagates and unprofitable members, and to bringe them to his gaole to be punyshed for the same. Therfore this may well be spared.

Irenius

Not so, me semes; for though the sherife have this authorytye upon himselfe to take upe all such traytors, and imprison them, yet shall he not doe so much good, nor worke that terror in the hartes of them, that a marshall will, whom they shall knowe to have power of life and death in such cases, and specially to be apointed for them: Neyther doth yt hinder but that though yt perteyne to the sherife, the sheriffe may do therin what he can, and yet the marshall may walke his course besydes; for both of them may doe the more good, and may terrifye the idle rogue, knowinge that though he have a watche upon thone, yet he may light upon th'other. But this proviso is nedfull to be had in this case, that the sherif may not have the like power of life as the marshall hath, and as heretofore they have bene accustomed; for yt is dangerous to give power of lyfe into the hands of him which may have benefyte by the partyes death, as, yf the sayd lose liver have any goodes of his owne, the Sherife is to seize therupon, wherby yt hath commen often to passe, that some who have not perhaps deserved judgemente of death, though otherwise perhaps offendinge, have bene for theire goods sake caught up, and caryed straight to the boughe; a thinge inded pittyfull and very horryble. Therfore by no meanes would I wishe the Sherife to have such authoretye, nor yet to imprison that loosel tyll the Sessions, for soe all gaoles might sone be filled, but [to] sned him to the Marshall, who, eftsones findinge him faultye, shall give him mete correctyon, and rid him away forthwith.

Eudoxus

I do nowe perceave your reason well. But come we nowe to that wherofe we earst spake, I meane, to religion and religious men; what order will you sett amongst them?

Irenius

For religion lytle have I to say, my self beinge as I sayde not professed therin, and yt selfe beinge but one, so as there is but one waye therin; for that which is true onely is, and the rest are not at all, yet in plantinge of religion this much is nedfull to be observed, that being not sought forceablie to be impressed into them with terror and sharpe penaltyes, as nowe is the manner, but rather delivered and intymated with myldnes and gentlenes, so as yt may not be hated before yt be understod, and theire Professors dispised and rejected. For this I knowe that most of the Irish are so farre from understandinge the popish religion as they are of the protestantes professyon; and yet do they hate that though unknowne, even for the very hatred which they have of the Eng[lish], and of theire government. Therefore yt is expedient that some discreete ministers of theire owne contrymen be first sent amongst them, which by theire mild perswasyons and instructyons, as also by theire sober lyfe and conversacon, may drawe them first to understand, and afterwardes to imbrace, the doctrine of theire salvacon; for yf that the auncyent godly fathers, which first converted them, beinge infidells, to the faith, were able to drawe them from infidelyte and pagansye to the true beliefe in CHRIST, as S. Pattricke, and S. Columb, how much more the godly teachers bringe them to the true understandinge of that which they alredy professe? wherin yt is greate wonder to see the odds which is betweene the zeale of Popish Preists, and ministers of ye Gospell; for they spare not to come out of Spaine, from Rome, from Rhemes, by longe toyle and dangerous travell hither, where they knowe perill of death awayteth them, and no rewarde nor ritches is to be found, onely to drawe the people to the Church of Rome; whereas some of our idle ministers, having a way for credit and estymacon therby opned unto them, and having the livinges of the country offred them, without paines, without perill, will neither for the same, nor for any love of God, nor zeale of religion, nor for all the good which they might doe by winninge of so many soules to God, be drawne forth from theire warme neastes and theire swete loves sydes to loke out into Gods harvest, which is even redy for the sickle, and all the feildes yellowe longe agoe: doubtlesse these good ould fathers will, I feare me, rise uppe in the day of judgment to condemne them.

Eudoxus

Surely, yt is greate pittye, Irin[i]us, that there are none chosen out of the mynisters of Eng[land], good sober, and discreete men, which might be sent over thither to teach and instructe them, and that there ys not asmuch care had of theire soules as of theire bodyes; for the care of both lyeth upon the Prince.

Irenius

Were there never so many sent over thither they should do small good tyll one enormity be taken from them, that is, that both they be restrayned from sendinge their yonge men abroade to other Universytyes beyond seas, as Rhemes, Doway, Lovaine, and the like, and that others from abroade be restrayned from cominge to them; for their lurkinge secretly in theire houses and in corners of the countrye do more hurte and hindrance to religion with theire private perswasyons, then all the others can doe with theire publicke instructyons; and though for these latter there be a good statute theire ordeyned, yet the same is not executed, and as for the former theire is noe lawe nor order for theire restrainte at all.

Eudoxus

I mervell that yt is no better loked unto and not onely this, but also that which, I remember, you mencyoned in your abuses concerninge the profittes and reveneues of the lands of fugitives in Ireland, which by pretence of certaine collorable conveyances are sent continuallye over unto them, to the comfortinge of them and others against her Majestye, for which here in Eng[land] there is good order taken: and why not then aswell in Ireland? For though there be no statute there yet enacted therefore, yet might her Majestye, by her onely prorgative, seize the fruictes and profites of those fugitives lands into her handes, tyll they came over to testefye theire true allegeance.

Irenius

Indeed she might so doe; but the combrous tymes do perhaps hinder the regarde therof, and of many other good intencons.

Eudoxus

But why then did they not minde yt in peaceable tymes?

Irenius

Leave we that to theire grave consideracons, but procede we forwarde. Next care in religion is to builde up and repaire all the ruine[d] churches: ther, the most parte ly even with the grounde, and some [that] have bene lately repayred, and thatched are so unhandsomely patched, and thatched, that men doe even shun the places for the uncomlynes thereof: therfore I would wish that there were order taken to have them builte in some better forme, according to the churches of England; for the outward shewe, assure your selfe, doth greatly drawe the rude people to the reverencinge and frequye[n]tinge therof, what ever some of our to nice foles saye, there is nothinge in the semely forme and comly order of the church. And, for so kepinge and continuynge them, there should likewise Church-wardens of the gravest men in the parishe be apointed, as there be here in England, which should take the yearely charge both hereof, and also of the schole-houses, which I wished to be builded nere to the sayd churches; for maintenance of both which, yt were mete that som severall porcon of land were alotted, seinge no more mortmaines are to be loked for.

Eudoxus

Inded me semes it would be so convenyente; but when all is done, how will you have this churche served, or your mynisters mayntayned? since the livinges (as you sayd) are not sufficent scarce to make them a newe gowne, much less to yeelde meete maintenaunce accordinge to the dignitye of theire degree.

Irenius

There is noe waye to helpe that, but to laye two or three of them together, untill such tyme as the contrye growe more ritche and better inhabited, at which times the tythes and other obvencons will also be more agmented and better vallued: But now that we have thus gone throough all theire sorts of trades, and set a course for their good establishment, let us yf you please, goe next to some other nedfull pointes of other publicke matters, no lesse concerninge the good of the commonwealth, though but accydently dependinge on the former. And first I wish that order were taken for the cuttynge downe and openinge of all paces thorough woodes, so that a wide waye of the space of c. yardes might be layde open in every of them for the safety of travellers, which use often in such perillous places to be robbed, and sometymes murthered. Next, that bridges were builte upon all rivers, and all the fordes marred and spilte, so as none might passe anye other waye, but by those bridges, and every bridge to have a gate and a small gatehouse sett thereon; wherof this good will come that no night stealthes, which are comonly driven in bywayes and by blinde fordes unused of any but such like, must be conveyed out of one contrye into another, as they use, but that they must passe by those bridges, where they may be hapely encountred, or easely tracked, or not suffred to passe at all, by meanes of those gatehouses therin: Also that in all streights and narrowe passages, as betwene twoe bogges, or through any deepe forde or under any mountayne syde, there should be some litle fortillage, or wodden castell sett, which should kepe and comand that streight, wherby any rebells that should com in the contrye might be stopped the way, or passe with great perill. Moreover, that all high wayes should be fenced on both sydes, leavinge onely fortye foote bredthe for passage, so as none should be able to passe but thorough the high waye, wherby theeves and night robbers might be the more easely pursued and encoutred, when there shalbe no other waye to drive theire stollen cattell but therein [as] I formerly declared. Further, that there should in sondrye covenyent places, by the highe waye [be] townes apointed to be builte, the which should [be] townes apointed to be builte, the which should be fre borrowes, and incorporate under Baylifes, to be by theire inhabitants well and stronglie trenched, or otherwise fenced with gates at eache syde therof, to be shutte nightlye, like as there is [in] many places in the English Pale, and all the wayes about yt to be strongly shut uppe, so that none should passe but thoorough those townes: To some of which yt were good that the priviledge of a markett were given, the rather to strengthen and enable them to theire defence, for nothinge doth sooner cause civillitye in any countrye then many market townes, by reason that the people repayringe often thither for theire neds, will daylye se and learne civyll manners of the better sorte. Besydes, there is nothinge doth more staye and strengthen the contrye then such corporate townes, as by profe in many rebellyons have bene proved, in all which when the countryes have swarved, the townes have stood stil and faste, and yelded good releife to the souldiors in all occasyons of service. And lastly there doth nothinge more enrich any contry or realme then many townes; for to them will people drawe and bring the fruicte of theire trades, aswell to make money of them, as to suply theire nedful uses; and the contrymen will also be the more industrious in tyllage, and rearinge all husbandrye comodityes, knowing they shall have redy sale for them at those townes: and in all those townes should there convenyent inns be erected for the lodginge and harboringe of all travellers, whoe are nowe oftentimes spoyled by lodginge abroade in weake thatch houses, for wante of such places to shrowde themselves in.

Eudoxus

But what profitt shall your markett townes reape of their markett, whereas each one may sell theire corne and cattell abroade in the countrye, and make theire secrett bargaynes amongst themselves, as nowe I understand they use?

Irenius

Inded, Eudoxus they doe so, and thereby no small incovenyence doth rise to the comonwealth; for nowe when any one hath stolne a cowe or a garon, he may secrettly sell yt in the countrye without privytie of any, wheras yf he brought yt into a market towne yt would perhaps be knowne, and the theife discovered. Therfore yt were good that a straight ordinance were made, that none should buy or sell any cattell but in some open markett (there beinge nowe markett townes everye where at hand) upon a greate penaltye neyther should they likewise by any corne to sell the same againe unlesse yt were to make malte therof; for by such engrossinge and regratinge we see the dearth that nowe comonly raigneth here in England to have bene caused. Hereunto also is to be added that good ordinance, which I remember was once proclaymed throughout all Ireland. That all men should marke theire cattell with an open severall marke upon theire flanckes or buttocks so as yf they hapned to be stollen, they might apeare whose they were, and they which should buy them might therby supecte the owner, and be warned to abstayne from byinge of them of a suspected person with such an unknowne marke.

Eudoxus

Surely these ordinances seme very expedient, but specyally that of fre townes, of which I wonder that there is such small store in Ireland, and that in the first peoplinge and plantinge therof they were neglected and omytted.

Irenius

They were not omitted; for there were, thoroughe all places of the country convenyente, many good townes seated, which thorough that inundacon of the Irish, which I first tould of, were utterly wasted and defaced, of which the ruines are yet in many places to be sene, and of some no signe at all remayninge, save onely theire bare names, but theire seates are not to be founde.

Eudoxus

But how then cometh yt to passe, that they have never since recovered, nor their habitacon bene reedified, as of the rest which have bene noe lesse spoyled and wasted?

Irenius

The cause therof was for that, after theire desolacon, they were begged by gentlemen of the Kings under collours to repaire them and gather the poore relickes of the people againe together, of whome havinge obtayned them, there so farre from reedyfying of them, as that by all meanes they have endeavored to kepe them waste, least that, beinge repayred, theire charters may be renewed and the bugesses restored to theire landes, which they had nowe in theire possessyon; much like as in those oulde monuments of abbyes, and religious houses, we see them likewise use to doe: for which cause yt is judged that King Henry the Eighth bestowed them upon them, knowinge that thereby they should never be able to rise againe. And even so do those Lords, in these ould pore coporate townes, of which I could name diverse but for kindling of displeasure. Therefore as I wished many corporate townes to be erected, so would I againe wish them to be free, not dependinge upon the service, nor under the comandment of any but the Governor. And beinge so, they will bothe strengthen all the countrye round about them, which by theire meanes wilbe the better replenished and enriched, and also be as contynuall houldes for her Majesty, yf the people should revolt and breake out againe; for without such yt is easye to forrey and over-ronne the whole lande. Let be, for example, all those freboroughes in the Lowe-countryes, which are nowe all the strength therof. These and other like ordinances might be delivered for the good establishment of this realme, afteryt is once subdued and reformed, in which yt might afterwardes [be] very easely kepte and maintayned with small care of the Governor and Councell there apointed, so as that yt should in short space yeld a plentyfull revenewe to the crowne of England; which now doth but sucke and consume the treasurye therof, through those unsound plattes and chagfull orders which are daylye devised for her good, yet never effectually prosecuted or performed.

Eudoxus

But in all this your discorse I have not marked any thinge by you spoken touchinge the appointment of the principall officer, to whome you wish the charge and performance of all this to be comitted: onely I observed some foule abuses by you noted in some of the late Governors, the reformacon wherof you lefte for this presente tyme.

Irenius

I delight not to lay open the blames of greate magistrates to the rebuke of the worlde, and therefore theire reformacon I will not medle with, but leave unto the wisdome of greater heades to be considered; onlely this much I will speake generally herof, to satisfye your desyre, that the Government and cheife majestracye I wish to continue as yt doth, to weete, that yt be ruled by a Lord Deputye or Justices, for that it is a very safe kinde of rule: But therewithall I wish that over him there wereplaced a Lord Leiftenante, of some of the greatest personages in England (such an one I could name) upon whom the eye of all England is fixed, (and our last hopes nowe rest) who beinge intituled with that dignitye, and being alwayes here residente, may backe and defend the good cause of the government against all malignors, which ells will, through theire cunning workinge under hand, deprave and pull backe whatsoever things shalbe well begunne or intended there, as we comonly see by experyence at this daye, to the utter ruyne and desolacon of the pore Realme, and this Leiftenancye should be no discoutenauncing of the Lord Deputye, but rather a strengtheninge and maintayninge of all his doinges; for now the cheife evill in that government is, that no Governor is suffred to goe one with any one course, but upon the least informacon here of this or that, he is eyther stoped or crossed, and other courses apointed him from hence which he shall runne, which how [in]convenient yt is, is at this hower to well felte. And therfore this should be one principle in the apointment of the Lord Deputies authoritye, that yt should be more ample and absolute then it is, and that he should have an uncontrouled power to doe any thinge that he, with the advisement of the Councell, shall thinke mete to be don: for yt is not possible for the Councell here, to directe a Governor there, who shalbe forced oftentymes to followe the nessitye of present occaysons, and to take the soddayne advantage of tyme, which beinge once loste will not bee recovered; whilst, thorough expectinge directyon from hence, the delayes wherof are oftentymes through greater affaires most irksome, the oportunityes there in the meane tyme passe awaye, and greate danger often groweth, which by such timely prevencon might easely be stopped. And this I remember is worthely observed by Matchavell in his discorses upon Lyvye, where he comendeth the manner of the Romans government, in giving absolute power to all theire Consuls and Governors, which yf they abused, they should afterwards derly answere: And the contrary thereof he reprehendeth [in] the State of Venice, of Florence, and many other pricipalytyes of Ittlaye, who use to lymytt theire chiefe officers so straightlye, as that therby they have oftentymes lost such happy occasyons as they could never come unto againe. The like wherof, who so hath bene conversante in that government of Ireland, hath to often sene theire great hinderance and hurt. Therfore this could I wish to be redressed, and yet not so, but that in particuler thinges he should be restrayned, though not in generall government; as namely in this, that no ofices should be sould by the Lord Deputy for money, nor no pardons, nor no protectyons bought for rewarde, nor noe beves taken [for] captencyes of contryes, nor no shares of bishopricks for nominatinge theire bishops, nor no forfaytures, nor dispensacons with penall statuts geven to theire servants or freindes, nor no sellyng of lycences for exportacon of prohibited warres, and specyally of corne and fleshe, with many the like; which nede some manner of restrainte, or els very greate trust in the honorable disposytion of the Lord Deputye.

Thus I have, Eudoxus as briefly as I could, and as my remembrance would serve, rund through the state of that whole contrye, both to let you see what it nowe is, and also, what yt may be by good care and amendment: not that I take upon me to change the pollicye of so greate a kingdome, or prescribe rules to such wise men as have the handlinge therof, but onely to shewe you the evills, which in my small experience I have observed to be the chiefe hindrance of the reformacon therof; and by the way of conference to declare my simple opinyon for redresse therof, and establishinge a good course for that government; which I do not deliver for a perfecte plotte of myne owne invensyon to be onely followed, but as I have learned and understood the same by the consultacons and actyons of very wise Governors and Counsellors whome I have sometymes heard treate therof. So have I thought good to sett downe a remembraunce of them for myne owne good, and your satisfactyon, that who list to overloke them, although perhaps much wiser then they which have thus advised of that state, yet at leaste, by comparison hereof, may perhaps better his owne judgment, and by the light of others foregoinge, he may followe after with more ease, and hapely finde a fayrer waye thereunto then they which have gone before.

Eudoxus

I thanke you, Irenyus, for thys your gentle paynes; withall not forgettynge nowe in the shuttyng uppe to put you in mynd of that which you have formerly halfe promysed—herafter when we shall meete agayne upon the like good occasyon, ye will declare unto us those your observacons which ye have gathered of the [Antiquities] of Ireland.

Finis 1596 E. S.

@book{E500000-001,
  UNKNOWN 	 = {title},
  editor 	 = {Alexander B. Grosart},
  edition 	 = {1},
  publisher 	 = {Privately printed},
  address 	 = {London},
  date 	 = {1894}
}
 E500000-001.bib